| Pages in topic: [1 2] > | Not paid because end client doesn't pay Thread poster: Morgane Serio
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Morgane Serio 
United States
Local time: 15:41
Member (2011)
English to French
In more than 15 years of experience, I have never encountered such a situation and I thought the issue was pretty straight forward but the agency doesn't see it that way. I'm looking for opinion.
- I have worked with Agency X for years without any issues, always helping, giving better rates, working pro bono, etc.
- Agency X asks me for a quote. I give a quote of $90 for a few personal documents.
- Agency X send me an email telling me the project is approved and to proce... See more In more than 15 years of experience, I have never encountered such a situation and I thought the issue was pretty straight forward but the agency doesn't see it that way. I'm looking for opinion.
- I have worked with Agency X for years without any issues, always helping, giving better rates, working pro bono, etc.
- Agency X asks me for a quote. I give a quote of $90 for a few personal documents.
- Agency X send me an email telling me the project is approved and to proceed.
- I translate the document. Before being able to deliver, I send an email asking for a couple of clarification on handwritten words.
- Agency X asks the client but they answer they got a death in the family so will answer soon.
- A month later, Agency X tells me they are still waiting to hear from them.
- 2 months later, Agency X send me an email saying: "Unfortunately the client just emailed me that they no longer need this document. Very sorry."
- I send an email reminding Agency X that they told me to confirm the job and hire me to work on it.
- Later, I send an email sending the invoice and the translated file, stating that I had already spent the time translated the job that I was hired to do and I should be compensated from my time and that I am sure the end client should understand that.
- Agency X now tells me that they need more time and maybe we can find a compromise.
I am so confused. I am the contractor. I was hired to do a job that I completed. I am in no way in relation with the end client. Never an agency has not payed me because their client wouldn't pay them. I spent the time and did the work. Why should I have to worry about the client not paying the agency? When I was working in an agency, I always made sure the translators were treated right and compensated for their work, no matter what. Am I wrong for expecting to be paid for a job I was hired to do? Thank you for your input!
[Edited at 2021-10-06 01:32 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | Stepan Konev
Russian Federation
Local time: 22:41
English to Russian
| Not at all (re: Am I wrong for expecting to be paid for a job I was hired to do?) | Oct 6, 2021 |
You have nothing to do with the relations between the agency and their end clients. Obviously they must pay in the described circumstances even at their own expense. In my understanding, their behavior is absolutely unfair.
| | | | | Cancellation after work has commenced | Oct 6, 2021 |
Hello Morgane,
From what I understand, you didn't have the chance to deliver to project within the original timeframe (but only after two months), which complicates things because you normally get paid for a product, which was not delivered to your own client, which is the agency, not the end client.
However, an order had been made and you had already started working on this project.
Have you signed any agreement with them that might clear this up?
... See more Hello Morgane,
From what I understand, you didn't have the chance to deliver to project within the original timeframe (but only after two months), which complicates things because you normally get paid for a product, which was not delivered to your own client, which is the agency, not the end client.
However, an order had been made and you had already started working on this project.
Have you signed any agreement with them that might clear this up?
To give you an example, the standard terms of business recommended by the SFT (a French translators association) stipulates the following for CANCELLATION:
If work that is commissioned is subsequently cancelled after work has commenced, for whatever reason and notified in writing by the Client to the Service Provider, the Client shall pay the Service Provider the full contract sum for the work completed and half (fifty percent) for the uncompleted work.
Going forward, maybe it is a good idea to apply such provisions in future collaborations.
With no form of agreement, applying this might be more complicated, but I suggest you to find a compromise.
Given the circumstances, it seems like the right thing to do.
Since this seems a small project, maybe a standard minimum fee (one billable hour) + 50% would do the trick? Or just 50%?
The agency cannot let you bear the risk of cancellation by the end client after project confirmation. They should make an effort as well, if they want to continue to enjoy your services. You are a long standing partner. These things go both ways.
Also, given their poor handling, maybe pro bono and "better rates" can be a thing of the past if you indeed choose to continue to work with them
[Edited at 2021-10-06 06:17 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | Adieu
Ukrainian to English
+ ...
| Remind them that this is precisely what they exist for | Oct 6, 2021 |
You can't be bothered to advertise, vet clients, and don a tracksuit to chase delinquent debts, so you let these slackers have a fat cut in exchange for dealing with it all
Whether they choose to collect or eat the loss isn't your problem.
It's theirs. Their client doesn't owe you, THEY do.
Well, sort of... seems like you left it at a situation where you let it get put on hold and never actually delivered anything. You should still bill them something for t... See more You can't be bothered to advertise, vet clients, and don a tracksuit to chase delinquent debts, so you let these slackers have a fat cut in exchange for dealing with it all
Whether they choose to collect or eat the loss isn't your problem.
It's theirs. Their client doesn't owe you, THEY do.
Well, sort of... seems like you left it at a situation where you let it get put on hold and never actually delivered anything. You should still bill them something for time wasted before cancellation though. ▲ Collapse
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Adieu wrote:
Well, sort of... seems like you left it at a situation where you let it get put on hold and never actually delivered anything.
This is what puzzled me as I read the original post. Presumably, the original deadline for "a few personal documents" was less than two months, yet several months seem to have elapsed before the translation was delivered.
I fully agree with other responders that the business agreement was between the OP and the agency, and that the agency should pay the translator regardless of whether they receive a fee from the end client or not. However, it's not clear from the description whether the translator in this case did actually comply with the terms of the original agreement or not.
This looks like a breakdown in communication, with some blame on both sides. These things happen.
To the OP, my advice is that if you wish to go on working with this agency you should seek some kind of compromise.
And next time, don't wait for two months before dealing with the problem.
| | | | | It’s only $90 | Oct 6, 2021 |
It isn’t like they couldn’t afford it…
If they didn’t happily pay up I wouldn’t want to work with them again. I like to be valued by my customers.
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Over the years I have had many occasions where I had to ask for clarification from my client, but if the answer doesn’t come within the deadline, I deliver the project with a note saying that I’ll be more than happy to modify the translation, if need be, when I receive the answer to my question.
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Teresa Borges wrote:
Over the years I have had many occasions where I had to ask for clarification from my client, but if the answer doesn’t come within the deadline, I deliver the project with a note saying that I’ll be more than happy to modify the translation, if need be, when I receive the answer to my question.
I usually put a comment where the query is and then provide a 'temporary' translation and explain what the issue is but I would not take so long to deliver the project and the invoice. PMs either suggest I do this or accept this if I suggest it to them.
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Morgane Serio
United States
Local time: 15:41
Member (2011)
English to French
TOPIC STARTER
Thank you for all your answers. I have always had a friendly relationship with the agency and we have always worked pretty tightly. So when I was done with the TR, I told her I was done but needed clarification and she told me she will get them from me and gave me a couple of updates a few weeks later, which let me to believe the project was still ongoing as we were waiting to hear from the client. Next time I will do like I do with every other agency: ask question on the first day of the projec... See more Thank you for all your answers. I have always had a friendly relationship with the agency and we have always worked pretty tightly. So when I was done with the TR, I told her I was done but needed clarification and she told me she will get them from me and gave me a couple of updates a few weeks later, which let me to believe the project was still ongoing as we were waiting to hear from the client. Next time I will do like I do with every other agency: ask question on the first day of the project and delivery in the delay no matter what.
It still doesn't change the fact that this situation is extremely unfair as she knows I have done the work, spent the time, and I have nothing to do with her delinquent clients... ▲ Collapse
| | | | Tina Vonhof (X)
Canada
Local time: 13:41
Dutch to English
+ ...
| I know it's not fair but | Oct 6, 2021 |
unfair things sometimes happen in life. I have been translating a long time and I remember one or two situations like this happening to me. If you always had a good relationship with this agency and you want to continue working with them, let it go. They offer you a compromise, accept it.
[Edited at 2021-10-06 14:44 GMT]
| | | | IrinaN
United States
Local time: 14:41
English to Russian
+ ...
| Death in the family??? | Oct 6, 2021 |
No offence intended but... since you claim that you know and trust Agency X, sounds like you might be dealing with your agency's impersonator. The reason given is sooo classic for scammers. Have you spoken with anyone working for your agency? Call them.
| | | | | The answer is quite straightforward | Oct 7, 2021 |
I am sad to say that this seems to be more common than one might think. I met with this at the start of my translation career (1994) and it made me lose faith in agencies. Three big agencies were concerned at the time paying months later than the already lengthy payment deadline. Scandalous.
Some basic contractual principles that apply in many countries across the world.
(1)
You are the translator providing a service (S) to your client, the agency (A), with a tran... See more I am sad to say that this seems to be more common than one might think. I met with this at the start of my translation career (1994) and it made me lose faith in agencies. Three big agencies were concerned at the time paying months later than the already lengthy payment deadline. Scandalous.
Some basic contractual principles that apply in many countries across the world.
(1)
You are the translator providing a service (S) to your client, the agency (A), with a translation.
This is a contract for the provision of services.
There is a simple and direct contractual link between you (S) and your client (A).
That link, in English law, is based on what is known as the "doctrine of privity of contract". You and the agency are "privy" to the contract for the provision of services between you. No other party is concerned by that contract.
(2)
In a similar contract, the same agency (A) is in a contractual relationship - also for the provision of services - with the end-client (C).
(3)
There is privity of contract between you and the agency.
There is privity of contract between the agency and the end client.
There is no privity of contract between you and the end client.
These two contract are quite separate.
You have provided your client (A) with the service as agreed.
Your client is under a contractual obligation to pay you for the service provided.
There is no contractual reason for the agency not to pay you the amount agreed and by the due date for payment.
The agency cannot seek to rely upon its own client's failure to pay as grounds for non-payment (or late payment) of your invoice.
Unfortunately, this is one of the classic situations where an intermediary will seek to delay or refuse payment.
There is no legal grounds for the agency to do so.
Bear in mind that an agency is there as an intermediary to provide offers of work but also to carry the risk of non-payment by the end client. The agency's responsibilities are reflected in the rate paid to its translators.
Write to the agency explaining that you contractual relationship starts and ends with them (the agency).
You are not privy to the agency's contract with the end client. That is entirely their problem and the agency's job as an intermediary is to protect you against an end client's late-payment or non-payment.
Send a recorded delivery latter with a copy of the invoice, referring to the terms and conditions of payment agreed between you (contract, exchanges by mail, etc). and ask them to pay in full by the due date.
if that date had passed, apply interest and/or penalties for late payment, as provided in the agreement between you. Explain that interest/penalties will continue to apply until full payment.
If there are no such provisions, then look to the statutory provisions that apply.
If none of this has been done, make sure you have something clearly established in future working agreements.
If you wish to protect future work with this client, then simply ask them to pay within one week (for example) otherwise you will have no choice but to seek legal advice. ▲ Collapse
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Tom in London
United Kingdom
Local time: 20:41
Member (2008)
Italian to English
| My understanding | Oct 7, 2021 |
My understanding is that under EU law it is illegal not to pay someone just because you haven't been paid.
Even if it's true that you haven't been paid.
| | | | Kay Denney
France
Local time: 21:41
French to English
I don't see that you're at fault in any way - although I would never have left the project hanging for two whole months if I just needed clarification on a couple of badly scrawled words.
Given that these two months have lapsed now, and the job was not finished, I would agree to being paid at least half as per the SFT recommendations. Although I would also argue that the job was very nearly finished and I deserve something more like 95%.
And I would stop giving this agency "b... See more I don't see that you're at fault in any way - although I would never have left the project hanging for two whole months if I just needed clarification on a couple of badly scrawled words.
Given that these two months have lapsed now, and the job was not finished, I would agree to being paid at least half as per the SFT recommendations. Although I would also argue that the job was very nearly finished and I deserve something more like 95%.
And I would stop giving this agency "best prices" and "pro bono" work. I only do pro bono for people who don't come to me via work channels.
Teresa Borges wrote:
Over the years I have had many occasions where I had to ask for clarification from my client, but if the answer doesn’t come within the deadline, I deliver the project with a note saying that I’ll be more than happy to modify the translation, if need be, when I receive the answer to my question.
And even better, as someone here suggested once (but I don't remember who), when you ask your questions, you say that you'll assume the answer to all of them is "yes" unless the client specifies otherwise at least an hour before delivery time.
You do have to be careful to word your questions in order to get a yes for the mostly likely options. If I have no idea what to do, I default to "Should I just leave this sentence out?" ▲ Collapse
| | | | Tony Keily
Local time: 21:41
Italian to English
+ ...
| How is this even a question? | Oct 7, 2021 |
You can easily disprove this approach to business contracts by trying to "spend" your credit at a local store or bar and telling the owner "I'll pay you when I get paid!"
(Although come to think of it, that's pretty much what underlies most monetary systems!)
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