Charles Davis Jun 7, 2019:

It just occurred to me to check to see whether Benedetti uses "usura" anywhere else in the book, and sure enough he does: in the poem "Los formales y el frío" (p. 20):

"él probó    sólo falta que me quede a dormir
y ella probó    por qué no te quedás
y él    no me lo digas dos veces
y ella    bueno por qué no te quedás

de manera que él se quedó    en principio
a besar sin usura sus pies fríos    los de ella
después ella besó sus labios    los de él
que a esa altura ya no estaban tan fríos
y sucesivamente así"

So he kissed her cold feet without expecting her to kiss his in return?

I went to a seminar by Benedetti once. I remember him as a very genial, smiling figure with a moustache. To my shame I can't remember anything he said.

Marie Wilson Jun 7, 2019:

@John Not embarrassingly jocular, I always like reading your comments! I read the whole page on Google Books before answering, and came to that conclusion too. From the excerpt I have read, this is between a woman and her partner's brother, who is always there to comfort her.

JohnMcDove Jun 7, 2019:

Continuation - (somewhat jocular) I would expect some recognition for my "parrafada", i.e., "aunque escribimos y contribuimos sin usura", en el fondo siempre nos gustaría recibir un poquito de admiración..., o cuando menos poder despertar una sonrisa en otros, que en realidad nos satisfaga a nosotros. Como el que da limosna, que se siente "bien", aunque no solucione mucho o nada... Well I hope not to come across as "embarrassingly jocular"... ¡Usureros que somos! :-)

JohnMcDove Jun 7, 2019:

In the context of Benedetti's work, right here, https://books.google.com/books?id=zvURm-uP-bYC&pg=PA64&lpg=P...
I read it as Helena and Marie Wilson. That is, she is just giving a "Gracias" not expecting any gratitude in return. That is the simplicity of the matter, in my view. Literally if I lend you money or I lend you a "Gracias" expecting to get a 20% back, if not an extra 50% then I am giving you a "gracias con usura". Te doy las gracias, esperando que mi gratitud se vea correspondida con un gracias multiplicado por 3..., con usura. In this case, she is just giving a genuine "Gracias" coming directly from her heart, without thinking why she is thankful, or what that attitude could bring her back... At any rate, thank you very much for reading up to here...I (me)...

Helena Chavarria Jun 6, 2019:

Another definition in Latin. Usura = use, enjoyment

http://www.latin-dictionary.net/definition/38209/usura-usura...

Helena Chavarria Jun 6, 2019:

My suggestion wasn't something I thought about, it suddenly occurred to me. To be able to give a proper answer, I would need to know who is saying 'Gracias', the reason they say it and what happend before and after the 22-word fragment.

People say 'thank you' in a number of ways: flippantly, wholeheartedly, without thinking, gratefully, sincerely, just to name a few, but none of those adverbials could ever mean 'sin usura'.

Charles Davis Jun 6, 2019:

undiminished? undimmed? Bea's reading is very interesting, and so is Michael's reminder of Pound's Canto. I'm really not sure which meaning of "usura" is intended. I thought the one metaphorically related to usury (as in Pound) made sense, but the alternative meaning, "deterioro o desgaste" (DLE meaning 4), a fairly recent borrowing from French —it's not in the 21st ed. of the DRAE (1992) nor in María Moliner— could well fit in this context. "Sans usure", in French, would (or could) mean without any weakening or diminution. Here the word "gracias" is recalled some time later, and the feeling of gratitude it expressed, straight from the heart, is as strong and fresh as when the word was spoken: "todavía ahora la palabra llegaba a sus labios directamente desde su corazón".

Beatriz Ramírez de Haro Jun 6, 2019:

unspoilt/pure Coincido con la acepción de "wear" que indican Phil y Charles. No creo que el sentido tenga nada que ver con altruismo o desinterés (y mucho menos, usura) sino que quiere transmitir la idea de puro agradecimiento, no "contaminado" (desgastado/deteriorado) por ningún otro tipo de consideraciones. Puede que unspoilt/pure no sean los términos adecuados, pero es la idea.

Michael Cohn Jun 6, 2019:

Ezra Pound and the Latin connection Consider the Latin basis of usura: usus. Use. So usury is the use of money as more than just a means to do other things, i.e. to make more money.
<p>
Consider Ezra Pound's Canto XLV, <a href="https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems/54319/canto-xlv"... Usura,"</a> which is about usura as defined in Latin, but probably still relevant. The whole point of the canto is that something done with usura is done for some kind of additional personal gain, some self-interest that interferes with the main purpose.


<p>
One of my top google hits for "sin usura" in Spanish content, was <a href="https://www.candilradio.com/index.php?option=com_k2&view=ite... description of a Spanish podcast,</a> which takes its name from the Pound canto.

Charles Davis Jun 6, 2019:

@Phil The DPD article on "usura" says: "En la lengua literaria se usa a veces con el sentido de ‘deterioro o desgaste’, calco semántico del francés usure: «Parecías haber escapado a la usura del tiempo» (VLlosa Loco [Perú 1993])."
http://lema.rae.es/dpd/srv/search?key=usura

So conceivably it might mean "in an unforced way". But I don't think that's likely to be what the writer means. I agree with Helena and Tomasso that it's a metaphorical use of "usury", in the sense of not expecting any benefit in return. I would be tempted to translate it as "without premeditation" or "uncalculatedly", though that might be a bit too free.

philgoddard Jun 6, 2019:

In Italian, it also means "wear", as in wear and tear. Could it mean that it came out smoothly and unobstructed?

Tomasso Jun 5, 2019:

w a love devoid of self interest? lots of words, devoid of self interest? devoid of personal gain? Just ideas