Glossary entry (derived from question below)
Spanish term or phrase:
referencia absoluta al Dios Crucificado
English translation:
(demands to be) absolutely traced / attributed to the Crucified God
Added to glossary by
Charles Davis
Jan 17, 2017 21:53
7 yrs ago
Spanish term
Spain
Manuel Alejandro Arciniegas Rivera
Reliable translation and interpreting
Native in: English 
, Spanish
Works in: Spanish to English, Portuguese to English, English to Spanish, and 5 more.
referencia absoluta al Dios Crucificado
Spanish to English
Other
Religion
Religion
el perdón reclama una referencia absoluta al Dios Crucificado, es decir, cuando la injusticia supera las fuerzas humanas, sólo Dios podrá perdonar y, de ese modo, liberarnos de las cadenas de la falta de justicia.
What do they mean by "referencia absoluta", a clear understanding?
What do they mean by "referencia absoluta", a clear understanding?
Proposed translations
(English)
| 4 +2 | (demands to be) absolutely attributed / referred to the Crucified God |
Charles Davis
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| 3 | absolute reverence (toward God) |
Ellen Kraus
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Change log
Jan 19, 2017 06:04: Charles Davis Created KOG entry
Proposed translations
+2
10 hrs
Selected
(demands to be) absolutely attributed / referred to the Crucified God
See also Bea's reference and our comments in the discussion. I would do this quite literally. The language is distinctive and carefully chosen. "Referencia" means "el hecho de ser referido", using "referir" in the sense of "poner algo en relación con otra cosa o con una persona" (DRAE def. 3). You can express this in English as being "referred to God", in the sense of related or attributed, although this use of "refer" is archaic:
3 refer something to archaic [with object] Trace or attribute something to (someone or something) as a cause or source.
'the God to whom he habitually referred his highest inspirations’"
https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/us/refer
An example of this use:
"that the glory of all may be absolutely referred to him, who is debtor to none, and will stand clear in judgment, with regard to all his works, of whom, through whom, and to whom are all things"
John Guyse (1797)
https://books.google.es/books?id=iNJNAQAAMAAJ&pg=PA526&lpg=P...
But perhaps it might be better to say "attributed" or "related". I think "attributed" expresses the sense of "referencia" that is involved here.
Although English-speaking Christians generally refer to "the crucified Christ" rather than "the crucified God", I would be inclined to do it literally, since I think the terms here are carefully chosen and that those who make this statement wish to focus on Christ as God. "Crucified God" is a term used, for example, by Benedict XVI here, quoting John Paul II:
"What limits the force of evil, the power, in brief, which overcomes it - this is how he says it - is God's suffering, the suffering of the Son of God on the Cross: "The suffering of the Crucified God is not just one form of suffering alongside others.... In sacrificing himself for us all, Christ gave a new meaning to suffering, opening up a new dimension, a new order: the order of love...."
http://en.romana.org/print.php?n=41&s=2.1&ID=10
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Note added at 10 hrs (2017-01-18 08:18:44 GMT)
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"Attributed", or indeed the Oxford definition's other word, "traced", which would also work: "absolutely traced to God".
3 refer something to archaic [with object] Trace or attribute something to (someone or something) as a cause or source.
'the God to whom he habitually referred his highest inspirations’"
https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/us/refer
An example of this use:
"that the glory of all may be absolutely referred to him, who is debtor to none, and will stand clear in judgment, with regard to all his works, of whom, through whom, and to whom are all things"
John Guyse (1797)
https://books.google.es/books?id=iNJNAQAAMAAJ&pg=PA526&lpg=P...
But perhaps it might be better to say "attributed" or "related". I think "attributed" expresses the sense of "referencia" that is involved here.
Although English-speaking Christians generally refer to "the crucified Christ" rather than "the crucified God", I would be inclined to do it literally, since I think the terms here are carefully chosen and that those who make this statement wish to focus on Christ as God. "Crucified God" is a term used, for example, by Benedict XVI here, quoting John Paul II:
"What limits the force of evil, the power, in brief, which overcomes it - this is how he says it - is God's suffering, the suffering of the Son of God on the Cross: "The suffering of the Crucified God is not just one form of suffering alongside others.... In sacrificing himself for us all, Christ gave a new meaning to suffering, opening up a new dimension, a new order: the order of love...."
http://en.romana.org/print.php?n=41&s=2.1&ID=10
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Note added at 10 hrs (2017-01-18 08:18:44 GMT)
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"Attributed", or indeed the Oxford definition's other word, "traced", which would also work: "absolutely traced to God".
Peer comment(s):
| agree |
Beatriz Ramírez de Haro
: Yes, the literal "Crucified God" is deliberately chosen, and "traced" conveys the meaning best in this context IMO.
54 mins
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Thanks, Bea :) I also think "traced" is a good option here.
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| agree |
AllegroTrans
9 hrs
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Thanks, Chris
|
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
50 mins
Ellen Kraus
Austria
Austria
Austria
more than thirty years of experience
Native in: German
Works in: Greek to German, English to German, Greek to English, and 5 more.
absolute reverence (toward God)
I confirm my initial scepticism by considering the word reference a typo in this context.
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Note added at 12 Stunden (2017-01-18 10:17:56 GMT)
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OXFORD USA TRADE, Oxford University Press - 2003 - Bibles
Absolute reverence toward God, toward His place of worship, and toward the necessary articles used in His worship needed to be learned. He is the same God
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Note added at 12 Stunden (2017-01-18 10:29:19 GMT)
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"our relation to God is one of absolute reverence"
Christian worship therefore is a lifestlye of absolute reverence to God for who He is. This call to worship actually goes beyond simple adoration ..
True Christianity: THE POSSIBILITY AND POWER OF SAINTLY LIVING
truechristianity-teaching.blogspot.com/.../the-possibility-and-pow...
05.05.2014 - Such person having repented and be forgiven of all sins and washed by the blood of Jesus Christ lives his life in absolute reverence to God
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Note added at 12 Stunden (2017-01-18 10:17:56 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
OXFORD USA TRADE, Oxford University Press - 2003 - Bibles
Absolute reverence toward God, toward His place of worship, and toward the necessary articles used in His worship needed to be learned. He is the same God
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 12 Stunden (2017-01-18 10:29:19 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
"our relation to God is one of absolute reverence"
Christian worship therefore is a lifestlye of absolute reverence to God for who He is. This call to worship actually goes beyond simple adoration ..
True Christianity: THE POSSIBILITY AND POWER OF SAINTLY LIVING
truechristianity-teaching.blogspot.com/.../the-possibility-and-pow...
05.05.2014 - Such person having repented and be forgiven of all sins and washed by the blood of Jesus Christ lives his life in absolute reverence to God
Peer comment(s):
| neutral |
Robert Carter
: Look at Beatriz' reference, it's not a typo.
2 hrs
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but it certainly could be.
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Reference comments
1 hr
Beatriz Ramírez de Haro
Spain
Spain
Native in Spanish
Specializes in field
Spain
Golf, Literature and Religion Specialist
Native in: Spanish 
Works in: English to Spanish, French to Spanish, Spanish
Related KudoZ points
:
24
Reference:
Declaración Pública de Cristianos y Cristianas
Se trata de un manifiesto de familiares de víctimas de crímenes lesa humanidad que muestra contrario a: "todo intento de degradar la misericordia divina, apelando a ella para intentar legitimar la impunidad de los criminales condenados por delitos de lesa humanidad y violaciones a los derechos humanos de enorme gravedad todo intento de degradar la misericordia divina, apelando a ella para intentar legitimar la impunidad de los criminales condenados por delitos de lesa humanidad y violaciones a los derechos humanos de enorme gravedad".
Contexto completo:
"Sabemos que el perdón es el resultado de un largo proceso de elaboración, es más un camino que una palabra, es una ruta que todos debemos transitar en vistas de la reconciliación total. El perdón necesita de una reparación real, de gestos, de un verdadero arrepentimiento y en última instancia para los/as cristianos/as, reclama una referencia absoluta al Dios Crucificado, es decir, cuando la injusticia supera las fuerzas humanas, sólo Dios podrá perdonar y, de ese modo, liberarnos de las cadenas de la falta de justicia".
La idea es que el perdón solo tiene sentido por referencia a Dios.
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Note added at 1 hr (2017-01-17 23:23:16 GMT)
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http://www.reflexionyliberacion.cl/ryl/2016/12/28/declaracio...
Contexto completo:
"Sabemos que el perdón es el resultado de un largo proceso de elaboración, es más un camino que una palabra, es una ruta que todos debemos transitar en vistas de la reconciliación total. El perdón necesita de una reparación real, de gestos, de un verdadero arrepentimiento y en última instancia para los/as cristianos/as, reclama una referencia absoluta al Dios Crucificado, es decir, cuando la injusticia supera las fuerzas humanas, sólo Dios podrá perdonar y, de ese modo, liberarnos de las cadenas de la falta de justicia".
La idea es que el perdón solo tiene sentido por referencia a Dios.
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Note added at 1 hr (2017-01-17 23:23:16 GMT)
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http://www.reflexionyliberacion.cl/ryl/2016/12/28/declaracio...
Peer comments on this reference comment:
| agree |
Robert Carter
: I agree, it's not a typo.
1 hr
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Thanks Robert - Bea
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| agree |
Charles Davis
: Tienes razón. Acabo de aportar unos comentarios en este sentido en la "discussion". Saludos :) // Estoy de acuerdo; no tiene por qué. Lo mencioné solamente por haber encontrado ejemplos en textos del Opus Dei, pero puede ser casual.
8 hrs
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Muy buena aportación, aunque, como bien apuntas, no creo que este contexto tenga nada que ver con la institución del Opus Dei.
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Discussion
"Como resultado de la elevación de la vida humana, los actos adquieren una referencia a Dios peculiar. Los actos buenos, además de buenos, tienen un mérito sobrenatural [...]
Acabamos de establecer una relación entre el valor moral de las acciones humanas y Dios."
https://books.google.es/books?id=Y01J7jHLNPIC&pg=PA88&lpg=PA...
This use of "referencia" is quite characteristic of Opus Dei, though I don't know whether the lay Christians who made this declaration are connected with that institution. Here are a couple of examples from Opus Dei writers:
"Sed hombres y mujeres -podemos parafrasear- que amáis al mundo porque [...] lo reconocéis como materia venida de Dios y querida por Él y, en consecuencia, con toda hondura lo apreciáis, conscientes de que la referencia a Dios no la desnaturaliza ni la destruye, sino al contrario la edifica y perfecciona."
http://www.opusdei.es/es-es/article/amar-al-mundo-en-dios-y-...
Continued in next post
En la antítesis perdón-justicia, el perdón solo puede se puede comprender si se relaciona de manera absoluta con el Dios Crucificado.