| Pages in topic: < [1 2 3] | A sort of "TranslationCoin": does it have any future? Thread poster: Nikolay Novitskiy
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Adieu 
Ukrainian to English
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| Wait, whaaat? | Nov 23, 2021 |
So, the idea is somebody, presumably first come first serve, cybersquats their entire translation memory as intellectual property and gets roylaties on 50-something percent of everything ever translated again in their language pair in that industry?
Ice Scream wrote: Ice Scream wrote:
OK, so basically it’s reducing translation to a piecemeal commodity of self-contained units (I am tempted to coin the term “words” here) that do not vary with context and can be traded like coins or stamps.
Do any of us really translate word by word, or segment by segment? It’s not the bricks, it’s what you build with them. Even in technical translations.
They can pool all the TMs they want, but nobody ain’t never gonna get me to use anyone else’s TMs but mine. The above got lost down below due to the time it takes for me to be vetted, so here it is again. Let’s give Nikolaj a break. He’s only starting a debate. We don’t like the idea. Of course we don’t. We’re translators. But what if it did happen? If I’m honest I’m too old to care. But for humanity’s sake, there is a case for nobody ever having to translate the words “annual report” or “for and on behalf of” ever again, and (if I understand it correctly) for the first person who ever did so to get a royalty.
[Edited at 2021-11-23 10:51 GMT]
| | | | Nikolay Novitskiy
Russian Federation
Local time: 12:01
Member (2018)
English to Russian
TOPIC STARTER | Get royalties on everything ever translated again in their language pair | Nov 23, 2021 |
Adieu wrote:
So, the idea is somebody, presumably first come first serve, cybersquats their entire translation memory as intellectual property and gets roylaties on 50-something percent of everything ever translated again in their language pair in that industry?
[Edited at 2021-11-23 10:51 GMT] [/quote]
Let's look at this from consumer's point of view. Phrases, say, like "annual report" or "no dry clean" can be translated once and forever. Why does the world economy have to pay translators for doing the same job again and again? It would be much effective to create a kind of global TM for such things (though it IS actually created already).
As for royalties, you hit the point here. I don't understand why say my translation of "no dry clean" will be worth for getting royalties then of someone others.
[Edited at 2021-11-23 11:14 GMT]
| | | | expressisverbis
Portugal
Local time: 08:01
Member (2015)
English to Portuguese
+ ...
| I don't know much about virtual currencies, I admit... but | Nov 23, 2021 |
Nikolay Novitskiy wrote:
You call the idea of applying blockchain to translation industry a scam - please prove your words. Scam is a dishonest scheme or a fraud. Where is the fraud here?
PS:
I will have to report your violating the forum rules, if you don't stop:
"Speculating on others' opinions is not allowed.
Commenting on others' opinions without authorization ('Jenny seems to think...'), is not allowed."
[Edited at 2021-11-23 08:55 GMT]
You can find the answer to your question here: "Cryptocurrencies and blockchain - Legal context and implications for financial crime, money laundering and tax evasion", and I believe you can find many other reliable texts about the matter.
https://www.europarl.europa.eu/cmsdata/150761/TAX3%20Study%20on%20cryptocurrencies%20and%20blockchain.pdf
Honestly, when I read this topic the first thing that suddenly came into my mind was "tax evasion".
I don't know much about virtual currencies, I admit.
It is true they can be misused, and there are many concerns about criminals who are increasingly using them for illegitimate activities like money laundering, terrorist financing and tax evasion.
Well, that's something that we (translators) should be worried about, and I don't see any reason to use it in the translation industry. It can lead to drastic results if you think about the scammers in translation.
And with all due respect, Nikolay... I am reading the answers of the members to your question, and I can't see any violation of the rules, or insulting comments to you, but just a different opinion from yours.
On the contrary, you are using a threatening tone. As far as I can see, we are all grown up here and we can only respect the opinions of others even if we disagree with them.
| | | | | Not personal | Nov 23, 2021 |
Nikolay Novitskiy wrote: Please respect common decencies when discussing, Thomas. A fact that you dislike an idea doesn't give you right to become personal. We are all professionals here and should respect each others point of views. Thomas T. Frost wrote:
Let's not be such snowflakes. And I think you misunderstand the reactions if you think we consider the idea "unpleasant".
For a professional translator running a successful business with good business relationships, I don't see any advantage in such a system.
Nikolay, your comment is wide of the mark. I have not said anything personal. I have criticised the concept with the words that best express what I think about it. In parts of the world, we have a concept called freedom of expression and I am under no obligation to express myself only in pedestrian or sanitised, robotic terms or let myself be censured by you. If you think it is offensive to call that concept hogwash, I think you are out of step with the majority here.
You furthermore said very clearly that you are not expressing any opinion about the concept: "I'm not advocating or opposing the concept. The goal of my posting this topic is to inform the audience about the issue." So which view is it that I don't respect?
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| No speculation | Nov 23, 2021 |
Nikolay Novitskiy wrote: P.L.F. Persio wrote:
If something looks like a scam, reads like a scam, reeks of scam, it very much is a scam. You call the idea of applying blockchain to translation industry a scam - please prove your words. Scam is a dishonest scheme or a fraud. Where is the fraud here? PS: I will have to report your violating the forum rules, if you don't stop: "Speculating on others' opinions is not allowed. Commenting on others' opinions without authorization ('Jenny seems to think...'), is not allowed."
P.L.F. Persio did not speculate on anyone's opinion. She expressed the view that the concept is a scam. She may be right or wrong, but she is entitled to express that view. We are not in North Korea or the former GDR and you are not a Stasi officer.
Nikolay, you are not in a position to censor a forum topic according to how you think people should behave and pick on people who say something you don't like. You can expect us to follow the forum rules. That's all.
[Edited at 2021-11-23 11:35 GMT]
| | | | Nikolay Novitskiy
Russian Federation
Local time: 12:01
Member (2018)
English to Russian
TOPIC STARTER | @expressisverbis | Nov 23, 2021 |
expressisverbis wrote:
Honestly, when I read this topic the first thing that suddenly came into my mind was "tax evasion".
To make it clear: we are discussing the idea some companies are talking about.
- A global TM is to be created
- Each translator can contribute to this TM
- Other translators/user can rate the segments
- Most rated segment gets a priority
- Blockchain is used to store information about who created a segment, who edited it, etc.
- When a customer uses a translation, they use this TM and pays royalty to translator
- A kind of "coin" is used to pay a royalty
That's what I got when researching the topic. You are welcome to discuss it but please be constructive.
If you think that it won't work, please explain why. If you think that it will change the industry, please explain this as well. If you know a way to protect your business, I will be glad to hear your thoughts as well.
PS: As for tax evasion concerns, I'm not sure that the issue will last for a long time. Governements are getting more control over crypto over time.
[Edited at 2021-11-23 11:52 GMT]
[Edited at 2021-11-23 11:56 GMT]
[Edited at 2021-11-23 11:57 GMT]
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Nikolay Novitskiy wrote:
- Other translators/user can rate the segments
Well, I do wonder (a) who'd bother and (b) would it just end up like KudoZ?
And who polices the police?
| | | | Nikolay Novitskiy
Russian Federation
Local time: 12:01
Member (2018)
English to Russian
TOPIC STARTER | Thank you for noting this | Nov 23, 2021 |
Ice Scream wrote:
Well, I do wonder (a) who'd bother and (b) would it just end up like KudoZ?
And who polices the police?
Thank you for noting this. The same solution is used on crowd translation platforms. They can have "editors" as a "police" (don't know if anyone controls them), but in most cases it's a sheer democracy. One can't guarantee that the most rated segment is translated correctly, of course. But companies still use crowdsource translations for some reasons. I don't know why
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Adieu
Ukrainian to English
+ ...
| No they CAN'T be translated once and forever | Nov 23, 2021 |
Unless you want to once and forever choose between WRITING and URINATING, or don't believe recognizing which one it is to be at all valuable.
Same letters, very different meanings (Russian)
Nikolay Novitskiy wrote:
Let's look at this from consumer's point of view. Phrases, say, like "annual report" or "no dry clean" can be translated once and forever. Why does the world economy have to pay translators for doing the same job again and again? It would be much effective to create a kind of global TM for such things (though it IS actually created already).
As for royalties, you hit the point here. I don't understand why say my translation of "no dry clean" will be worth for getting royalties then of someone others.
[Edited at 2021-11-23 11:14 GMT]
[Edited at 2021-11-23 14:04 GMT]
[Edited at 2021-11-23 14:04 GMT]
| | | | expressisverbis
Portugal
Local time: 08:01
Member (2015)
English to Portuguese
+ ...
| Just my two cents | Nov 23, 2021 |
Nikolay Novitskiy wrote:
- A global TM is to be created
- Each translator can contribute to this TM
- Other translators/user can rate the segments
- Most rated segment gets a priority
- Blockchain is used to store information about who created a segment, who edited it, etc.
- When a customer uses a translation, they use this TM and pays royalty to translator
- A kind of "coin" is used to pay a royalty
A "global TM" with too many translators' contributions can prove to be a disaster. When a lot of people are involved, things can be out of control and terminology consistency can be compromised.
Rating segments can be a way of moving the proofreaders away, and I do not see the point of rating them. What is the benefit?
Companies already know who is in charge of each step in a translation project, and we already have good project management software to help us in overseeing that information.
Would it really be necessary to use a global "method" as Blockchain?
Some companies offer miserable rates to translators already, so I wonder how much royalties could be paid.
And that kind of "coin" is risky. You could see all your money gone if something happens, because Blockchain can have its flaws too, and it is easy to accidentally put the information in ways that are not secure.
I prefer to be paid by the same method(s) that I have been paid until now.
It is true, that is why my country is already demonstrating its concerns and making people aware of virtual currencies.
"Banco de Portugal" (the central bank of the Portuguese Republic) and our Tax Authority also work very well in terms of preventing tax evasion.
Honestly, so much for the theory; implementing it in practice would be harder, I think.
My final question is the same as Chris (Ice Scream): Who would be controlling or monitoring this "system"?
[Edited at 2021-11-23 14:05 GMT]
[Edited at 2021-11-23 14:32 GMT]
| | | | | Post removed: This post was hidden by a moderator or staff member for the following reason: unedited since two weeks | | Post removed: This post was hidden by a moderator or staff member for the following reason: Replying to removed post. |
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Nikolay Novitskiy
Russian Federation
Local time: 12:01
Member (2018)
English to Russian
TOPIC STARTER | Thank you for your two cents | Nov 23, 2021 |
expressisverbis wrote:
...
Thank you for your two cents, expressisverbis. That's what I'm waiting to hear from my colleagues.
| | | | | Delete button and confidentiality? | Nov 23, 2021 |
The idea behind blockchain and web 3.0 is to spread the data so it's not held by any sole corporation or individual. AFAIK the process involves that the data will be copied and spread over several computers.
If that's the case, how do we deal with:
_Anonimity of the Blockchain TM?
_Sensitive or proprietary source content?
_Need to erase information (in theory it's impossible with blockchain)
Next thing I'd consider is access speed before even looking at the c... See more The idea behind blockchain and web 3.0 is to spread the data so it's not held by any sole corporation or individual. AFAIK the process involves that the data will be copied and spread over several computers.
If that's the case, how do we deal with:
_Anonimity of the Blockchain TM?
_Sensitive or proprietary source content?
_Need to erase information (in theory it's impossible with blockchain)
Next thing I'd consider is access speed before even looking at the coin/retribution aspect.
How the above will be dealt with? ▲ Collapse
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