| Pages in topic: < [1 2 3 4 5 6] > | Is making random answers in many pairs acceptable, or KudoZ spam? Thread poster: Tomas Mosler, DipTrans IoLET MCIL MITI
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| Do not translate! | Apr 19, 2011 |
I have often thought that a rapid and efficient way for a non-linguist to rack up points in all language pairs would be to post “Do not translate!” for every question on KudoZ. Amazing how often this turns out to be the correct answer. The P/Q ratio wouldn’t be very impressive, though.
| | | | | Neither moderator, nor site staff have linguistic authority | Apr 19, 2011 |
Dear Tomas,
Neither site staff, nor moderators have the linguistic authority to determine whether an answer to a KudoZ question is correct or not, or whether an answer is helpful or not. Like explained in my previous reply, if you think a KudoZ answer is not correct --or not helpful, you should use the peer agreement feature.
As regards KudoZ as a term help network, and also as explained in my previous reply, there are no restrictions regarding the resources used to pro... See more Dear Tomas,
Neither site staff, nor moderators have the linguistic authority to determine whether an answer to a KudoZ question is correct or not, or whether an answer is helpful or not. Like explained in my previous reply, if you think a KudoZ answer is not correct --or not helpful, you should use the peer agreement feature.
As regards KudoZ as a term help network, and also as explained in my previous reply, there are no restrictions regarding the resources used to propose a KudoZ answer (dictionaries, online glossaries, machine translation, etc.).
Finally, note that KudoZ rule http://www.proz.com/siterules/kudoz_answ/3.7#3.7 clearly states that "Comments or insinuations concerning an answerer's or asker's experience or profile, his/her decision to post a certain question or answer, grade or close a question in a certain way, make a certain glossary entry, etc., are strictly prohibited (whether posted publicly, made directly to the person in question, or made to another site user).".
Lucía ▲ Collapse
| | | | | Staff I can understand, but moderator? | Apr 19, 2011 |
Lucia Leszinsky wrote:
Neither site staff, nor moderators have the linguistic authority to determine whether an answer to a KudoZ question is correct or not, or whether an answer is helpful or not. Like explained in my previous reply, if you think a KudoZ answer is not correct --or not helpful, you should use the peer agreement feature.
I can understand site staff not having linguistic authority, but if this applies to moderators too then I really am not understanding the reasoning. Aren’t moderators translators themselves in the language pair(s) they are moderating in? Why wouldn’t they be linguistic authorities, at least to a certain extent?
We are not talking about specialized terminology here, but things that any translator (professional or otherwise) working in the pair will easily see as random answers.
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Neither site staff, nor moderators have the linguistic authority to determine whether an answer to a KudoZ question is correct or not, or whether an answer is helpful or not.
I'm sorry, but if Proz team is not able to determine (not as a permanent guard of course, but when notified) whether an answer is helpful or whether the user is using the KudoZ platform only to make mess, how can Proz team control if the rule about providing help is respected or not?
Disagreements would be nice, but frankly why bother? That is not the solution of the problem as such.
Finally, note that KudoZ rule http://www.proz.com/siterules/kudoz_answ/3.7#3.7 clearly states that "Comments or insinuations concerning an answerer's or asker's experience or profile, his/her decision to post a certain question or answer, grade or close a question in a certain way, make a certain glossary entry, etc., are strictly prohibited (whether posted publicly, made directly to the person in question, or made to another site user).".
Yes, I know what the rule is. I also know it is in section 3 - Kudoz, and as such I don't discuss any answerer's actions on KudoZ pages.
Anyway, even if this discussion would be on KudoZ pages and not here, it is not about experience, profile or decision of anyone, but about real actions in relation to what is (not) considered as "providing help".
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Does this
Comments or insinuations concerning an answerer's or asker's experience (...) are strictly prohibited (whether made directly to the person in question...)
mean that it is not allowed to write a private message to such an asker saying something like "...please refrain from answering the KudoZ questions out of your language pairs with the help of Google Translate, KudoZ is not a sandbox, keep it professional..." as it would be considered a "comment on experience"?
| | | | | KudoZ moderators' role is not linguistic but social | Apr 19, 2011 |
Ambrose Li wrote:
I can understand site staff not having linguistic authority, but if this applies to moderators too then I really am not understanding the reasoning. Aren’t moderators translators themselves in the language pair(s) they are moderating in? Why wouldn’t they be linguistic authorities, at least to a certain extent?
KudoZ moderators' main focus is to facilitate and encourage active and professional participation in KudoZ exchanges of both "help" and "glossary-building" types. The job is not linguistic but social: it primarily involves welcoming and guiding new KudoZ participants, and establishing and protecting a positive, results-oriented environment through the use of well-developed rules enforcement procedures.
More information about moderators is available here: http://www.proz.com/?sp=moderators
Tomas Mosler wrote:
I'm sorry, but if Proz team is not able to determine (not as a permanent guard of course, but when notified) whether an answer is helpful or whether the user is using the KudoZ platform only to make mess, how can Proz team control if the rule about providing help is respected or not?
As long as KudoZ answers do not include advertising, or discussions, or are not posted with purposes other than giving help with terms, they are valid.
If you have concrete evidence that one or more answers have been posted with purposes other than giving help, please submit a support request with all relevant information and I'll be happy to look into it, http://www.proz.com/support
Lucía
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Tomas Mosler wrote: Does this Comments or insinuations concerning an answerer's or asker's experience (...) are strictly prohibited (whether made directly to the person in question...) mean that it is not allowed to write a private message to such an asker saying something like "...please refrain from answering the KudoZ questions out of your language pairs with the help of Google Translate, KudoZ is not a sandbox, keep it professional..." as it would be considered a "comment on experience"?
Such a message would not only violate KudoZ rule http://www.proz.com/siterules/kudoz_answ/3.7#3.7 , but also site rule 2, http://www.proz.com/siterules/general/2#2 ("Harassment of, or attacks or ad hominem statements on, individuals or groups, of any form, as well as discouragement of another's use of the site, will not be tolerated.").
Lucía
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Well  I see the troublemakers are granted better protection than fair users.
[Edited at 2011-04-19 23:11 GMT]
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Tomas Mosler wrote: Well I see the troublemakers are granted better protection than fair users. [Edited at 2011-04-19 23:11 GMT]
indeed, noticed it some time ago.
[Edited at 2011-04-19 23:27 GMT]
| | | | | You are invited to use the support system | Apr 19, 2011 |
Tomas Mosler wrote: Well I see the troublemakers are granted better protection than fair users.
This is not a matter of protection, Tomas, but of site rules.
I still invite you to submit a support request with all relevant details regarding the case you mention and I will personally look into it to take appropriate action if needed.
Thanks in advance,
Lucía
| | | | Rachel Fell 
United Kingdom
Local time: 10:37
French to English
+ ...
| Not sure if it's the same one, but... | Apr 19, 2011 |
philgoddard wrote:
I used to think well, he provides some harmless amusement, and he does have an impressive (if very sketchy) knowledge of many languages.
But then, in an unguarded moment, he admitted that he gets his answers from Google Translate! So he just sits there all day feeding questions into Google Translate and entering the answers into KudoZ, even if they make no sense. It seems like an exercise in total fuitility to me, and he obviously has masochistic tendencies because he gets more disagrees than anyone else on this site.
... when I once pointed out that what he'd written wasn't proper English (I forget the exact details offhand), he remonstrated that he didn't speak English!
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I still invite you to submit a support request with all relevant details regarding the case you mention and I will personally look into it to take appropriate action if needed.
I have done that about one or two hours ago.
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MariyaN (X)
United States
Japanese to Russian
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| A question to Lucia regarding Site Rules | Apr 20, 2011 |
Lucia Leszinsky wrote: Tomas Mosler wrote: Does this Comments or insinuations concerning an answerer's or asker's experience (...) are strictly prohibited (whether made directly to the person in question...) mean that it is not allowed to write a private message to such an asker saying something like "...please refrain from answering the KudoZ questions out of your language pairs with the help of Google Translate, KudoZ is not a sandbox, keep it professional..." as it would be considered a "comment on experience"? Such a message would not only violate KudoZ rule http://www.proz.com/siterules/kudoz_answ/3.7#3.7 , but also site rule 2, http://www.proz.com/siterules/general/2#2 ("Harassment of, or attacks or ad hominem statements on, individuals or groups, of any form, as well as discouragement of another's use of the site, will not be tolerated."). Lucía
I have a question.
I few months ago I received an e-mail message via ProZ.com from one of the members after that person disagreed with my answer in KudoZ. That message was nothing but harassing and attacking; I reported it to site staff, was notified that "appropriate action was taken", and that was it. That person is still here and still says whatever he wants when appearing in KudoZ; moreover, in that extremely inappropriate, rude and offensive manner he addresses not only me, but almost all translators who usually take part in discussions in that pair. That person has already made several direct offensive remarks in other discussions at other translators before he sent that e-mail to me. According to the rules, that member should have already been issued a red card and be terminated without the right for readmission - however, he is still here and behaves himself like he is the only one able to make translations in this particular pair (having, by the way, produced very few answers by himself).
So, my question is: what is the actual limit at which a member is considered to be violating the rules?
Site Rules put it pretty clear, as for me; but if neither random, spam-like, unhelpful MT for KudoZ (as in case Tomas brought to this discussion), nor direct harassing remarks (as it was in my case) are not considered serious enough by site staff, then what is?
| | | | | So I'm not alone | Apr 20, 2011 |
Evonymus (Ewa Kazmierczak) wrote: Tomas Mosler wrote: Well I see the troublemakers are granted better protection than fair users. [Edited at 2011-04-19 23:11 GMT] indeed, noticed it some time ago. [Edited at 2011-04-19 23:27 GMT]
I'm happy to know that I'm not alone, and yes, I fully agree with what Tomas and Evonymus wrote. I've also felt the same that troublemakers are granted better protection than fair users.
| | | | IPtranslate (X)
Brazil
English to Dutch
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Yasutomo Kanazawa wrote:
I'm happy to know that I'm not alone, and yes, I fully agree with what Tomas and Evonymus wrote. I've also felt the same that troublemakers are granted better protection than fair users.
Yes, and as to reporting to support; that is like "reporting to Khadaffi that you would like Khadaffi to do a better job"...pardon the analogy, but that is what it is...
[Edited at 2011-04-20 08:21 GMT]
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