| Pages in topic: < [1 2] | Kudoz questions - "is it fair?" - some people abuse the system Thread poster: Mariadelpila (X)
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Bubo Coroman (X)
Spanish to English
| the question "is KudoZ fair?" may just mean we are full of pride in ourselves | Jun 13, 2009 |
This morning I read the whole of the thread after my friend Tomás (who has posted above) sent me a link. My reaction is that really KudoZ is for answerers who don't have a lot of pride. If you have a lot of pride, your pride soon gets very hurt. You answer a question correctly, and you prove it with clear references, but the asker chooses an answer that is TOTALLY wrong and is not backed up by ANY references; this happened to me a long time ago, and after that, I stopped opening emails headed "... See more This morning I read the whole of the thread after my friend Tomás (who has posted above) sent me a link. My reaction is that really KudoZ is for answerers who don't have a lot of pride. If you have a lot of pride, your pride soon gets very hurt. You answer a question correctly, and you prove it with clear references, but the asker chooses an answer that is TOTALLY wrong and is not backed up by ANY references; this happened to me a long time ago, and after that, I stopped opening emails headed "Question closed", just so I wouldn't get hurt.
There is one advantage to this "pride" phenomenon. In my daily visits to KudoZ I have seen the rudest-worded "disagrees" given to my "best mates" (old hands at KudoZ that I have known for ages, and respect immensely) by "newbies to KudoZ" who are obviously BRILLIANT TRANSLATORS but INCREDIBLY SCATHING OF OTHER PEOPLE'S ANSWERS even when those answers in themselves, while not necessarily correct, are the product of careful thought. Fortunately, these newbies' PRIDE (usually huge compared with most people's) also means that, usually within a few days, they disappear from KudoZ and are never seen there again (they are PEEVED because askers in general don't pay enough tribute to their BRILLIANT answers).
I'm not accusing anyone who has posted in this thread of being proud, I'm just stating what I have observed on KudoZ. Effectively KudoZ weeds out all the disagreeable people who think they know more than other answerers and make insulting comments about other people's answers even when they, the "newbies", have been on KudoZ only for a matter of days.
As "frequent answerers", those who have a daily presence on KudoZ, if a particular asker upsets us for any reason we can do what Tomás (see above) does himself and recommends to others -- filter the asker so as never more to be bothered by their questions. I have started doing this myself, as I think Tomas' idea is very sound, and it makes for "peace" between me and KudoZ. After all, we all want to live in peace, don't we? ▲ Collapse
| | | | Mariadelpila (X) 
Local time: 23:38
English to Spanish
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TOPIC STARTER | the question "is KudoZ fair?" may just mean we are full of pride in ourselves | Jun 13, 2009 |
Hi, Deborah
I just wanted to point out a couple of things:
1) Although some people have complained about the points system, this was not the initial point I raised. The question I raised about Kudoz was to do with the fairness/unfairness of using the system merely to get help and never to help others.
I do not want to get involved in naming specific people, but the example given by Tomás was a very fair example of someone who only uses the system for their own b... See more Hi, Deborah
I just wanted to point out a couple of things:
1) Although some people have complained about the points system, this was not the initial point I raised. The question I raised about Kudoz was to do with the fairness/unfairness of using the system merely to get help and never to help others.
I do not want to get involved in naming specific people, but the example given by Tomás was a very fair example of someone who only uses the system for their own benefit, not for camaraderie. Asking over 700 questions in a year just shows an amazing lazyness and dependence on the part of the asker. Posting around 10 questions a day on the same translation project, althouh it may show you want to get it right, it also shows your lack of command of the language.
2) In spite of this, I do think that having targetted that girl in person and in public, like some people did, is going a bit too far, because nobody would have wanted it done to themselves.
3) Noticing things that are wrong only means you are an observing person and can see further than the end of your nose.
Meanwhile, a space for social gathering and sharing of knowledge is a great place for those who are prepared to share and be social. ▲ Collapse
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Mariadelpilar wrote:
2) In spite of this, I do think that having targetted that girl in person and in public, like some people did, is going a bit too far, because nobody would have wanted it done to themselves.
Personally I want it done to myself! Never in my career have I advanced more than when I was openly criticised by other colleagues. Being questioned (either in my attitude or in my knowledge) makes me stop and wonder whether I had too much pride and/or excess of confidence. So folks, please do let me know when I am really going astray!!
| | | | Aniello Scognamiglio (X)
Germany
Local time: 00:38
English to German
+ ...
| Implement an algorithm... | Jun 13, 2009 |
Tomás Cano Binder, CT wrote:
English-Spanish .... 750 questions since December 2008!
...I am accused of being unfair to this person and destroying the good mood in Kudoz. Of course making 750 questions and answering only 1 is not "destroying the good mood in Kudoz".
Hi Thomas,
I agree with you that the ratio of "questions asked" and "questions answered" may be sort of weird but asking 750 questions within 6 months (180 days) is in compliance with the KudoZ rules (5 questions per day are allowed, I think, or 10? I don't know). By mentioning the language combo English-Spanish and 750 questions asked since last december it is relatively easy to find out who that person is. That is not fair.
The real problem is that some translators do not contribute to the community at all. My suggestion is to implement an algorithm that prevents translators from asking further questions, if the ratio of "questions asked" and "questions answered" is not at least 50:50 (just an example).
Regarding the good mood in KudoZ: Which KudoZ do you mean? There is English-Spanish, German-English, Chinese-Italian, Russian-French etc. I doubt that the mood level is the same in all language combinations.
Aniello
Edited for typo.
[Edited at 2009-06-14 14:13 GMT]
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| The purpose of "help" KudoZ | Jun 13, 2009 |
Aniello Scognamiglio wrote:
The real problem is that some translators do not contribute to the community at all. My suggestion is to implement an algorithm that prevents translators from asking further questions, if the ratio of "questions asked" and "questions answered" is not at least 50:50 (just an example).
The main purpose of "help" KudoZ questions is to help the asker. This algorithm would not be in line with such purpose.
The statistic of questions asked and answered by the asker is displayed (as mouse-over) in each KudoZ question, so potential answerers can decide if they are willing or not to provide help.
Regards,
Enrique
| | | | Mariadelpila (X)
Local time: 23:38
English to Spanish
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER | Personally I want it done to myself! | Jun 13, 2009 |
Hola, Tomás
Well, I agree that being able to take constructive feedback is a great skill, the same as being able to give constructive feedback to others. However, the point I want to make is that feedback is best given privately than in public in certain occasions and that no one likes to be ridiculised in public. Perhaps this is teacher mentality, but I think it's common sense.
This is only a reflection on whether this could have been dealt with in a better way. I sup... See more Hola, Tomás
Well, I agree that being able to take constructive feedback is a great skill, the same as being able to give constructive feedback to others. However, the point I want to make is that feedback is best given privately than in public in certain occasions and that no one likes to be ridiculised in public. Perhaps this is teacher mentality, but I think it's common sense.
This is only a reflection on whether this could have been dealt with in a better way. I suppose what we need to do is learn to choose whom to help.
I think that raising concerns in forums is justifiable, though, trying to not make it personal.
I do hope the thread helps some people think about giving rather than just taking...
[Edited at 2009-06-13 21:14 GMT]
[Edited at 2009-06-13 21:15 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | | I just gave an example! | Jun 13, 2009 |
Mariadelpilar wrote:
I think that raising concerns in forums is justifiable, though, trying to not make it personal.
That's why I did not mention the person's name. I was just giving an example, the same way we all give examples when we discuss Kudoz issues.
[Edited at 2009-06-14 06:58 GMT]
| | | | Mariadelpila (X)
Local time: 23:38
English to Spanish
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER | I just gave an example! | Jun 13, 2009 |
It is true, in the forum no specific name was given.
I was thinking more of the direct comments that people posted in reply to one of her questions, which got a bit agressive, and which anyone receiving and opening that question could see. I felt inclined to post something myself, but I stopped myself from doing it. It does look like a quite difficult book to translate, which maybe that person should not have taken on, but their problem.
I'll say no more on the matter.... See more It is true, in the forum no specific name was given.
I was thinking more of the direct comments that people posted in reply to one of her questions, which got a bit agressive, and which anyone receiving and opening that question could see. I felt inclined to post something myself, but I stopped myself from doing it. It does look like a quite difficult book to translate, which maybe that person should not have taken on, but their problem.
I'll say no more on the matter. Whilst I was interested in helping with literature-related questions because I have an interest in that field, I think I have learnt a valuable lesson: check who the asker is first! Perhaps I was shocked because I was new to the site but other people may have lived with it for ages and learnt to deal with it.
End of topic, for me. ▲ Collapse
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Mariadelpilar wrote:
I was thinking more of the direct comments that people posted in reply to one of her questions, which got a bit agressive, and which anyone receiving and opening that question could see.
I hope you don't confuse frankness with aggresivity. If you mean any of my comments, my intention was never to be aggresive: I was merely making the point that the asker should make a bigger effort and try to use dictionaries and other sources to find a solution, instead of using Kudoz as the first resource. In fact, using Kudoz as the first resource is a violation of Kudoz' rules!
Nobody likes being criticised. What I feel is very sad is that, after the concerns expressed not just by me, but also by other people who had been helping her a lot, she simply does not respond and goes on and on with more questions.
| | | | Aniello Scognamiglio (X)
Germany
Local time: 00:38
English to German
+ ...
| You misunderstood my comment. | Jun 14, 2009 |
Tomás Cano Binder, CT wrote: Aniello write:
By mentioning the language combo English-Spanish and 750 questions asked since last december it is relatively easy to find out who that person is. That is not fair. Mentioning the person's name?
NO, no, no! Not at all! I did not say that, on the contrary! I said that by mentioning the language combination and number of questions asked it is possible to identify the asker. In other language combinations with less KudoZ participation it would be even easier.
I am sorry, if that was not clear enough.
Not mentioning the language pair?
Yes, that definitely makes it more difficult to identify a person. Please get me right: I fully understand your point, and I basically agree that it is not fair to only ask questions and not helping others (but nobody is forced to help). That's why I spontaneously suggested to implement an algorithm that makes sure that an asker asks questions AND answers questions. I think this is an option that we can discuss in a separate thread; @Enrique: I will answer your post later.
Why did you want to know who it is?
Again, I did not say that.
I don't understand why you needed to know who it was exactly.
Again, the third time: I did not say that.
Have a wonderful sunday, I have to go offline now, see you later.
Aniello
Edited for typo.
[Edited at 2009-06-14 14:20 GMT]
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Aniello Scognamiglio wrote:
You misunderstood my comment.
Oops! Sorry Aniello. Indeed I must have! I have deleted my comment as it was clearly clumsy. Sorry pal!
| | | | Anastasia Naoumi (X)
Greece
Local time: 01:38
English to Greek
| Stop helping the ones who take advantage of it | Jun 14, 2009 |
I have noticed that there are people who post questions and who won't even bother making internet research or buying a respectable dictionary to find the answers. My question is: how on earth are these people given translations by agencies/customers when they do not even know how to translate? The only solution is to stop helping people who obviously take advantage of the Kudoz system, for example by posting 5 questions in a row, the answers to which can be found easily, even with some decent go... See more I have noticed that there are people who post questions and who won't even bother making internet research or buying a respectable dictionary to find the answers. My question is: how on earth are these people given translations by agencies/customers when they do not even know how to translate? The only solution is to stop helping people who obviously take advantage of the Kudoz system, for example by posting 5 questions in a row, the answers to which can be found easily, even with some decent googling. ▲ Collapse
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Lingua 5B
Bosnia and Herzegovina
Local time: 00:38
Member (2009)
English to Croatian
+ ...
| To Anastasia | Jun 14, 2009 |
Anastasia Naoumi wrote:
I have noticed that there are people who post questions and who won't even bother making internet research or buying a respectable dictionary to find the answers. My question is: how on earth are these people given translations by agencies/customers when they do not even know how to translate? The only solution is to stop helping people who obviously take advantage of the Kudoz system, for example by posting 5 questions in a row, the answers to which can be found easily, even with some decent googling.
My guess is that they get jobs by offering $0.01 per word. Or perhaps they accept jobs that are clearly out of their area of expertise.
Not only do they ask questions that can be easily researched, but it's also evident they use anti-glossary and anti-dictionary methods of asking questions and presenting notions which reflects an obvious lack of experience/expertise in anything related to translation. Yes, 100% amateurs. But they are cheap workers, and employers like them.
They sometimes seem as if their entire translation outcome fully depends on whether they will find somebody on KudoZ so gracious and available to answer their serial questions on time, otherwise they may not even be able to finish up the translation.
KudoZ is a wonderful place for learning, sharing and helping, but KudoZ must not be abused as some kind of a free-service center.
[Edited at 2009-06-14 14:36 GMT]
| | | | Aniello Scognamiglio (X)
Germany
Local time: 00:38
English to German
+ ...
| You are welcome :-) | Jun 14, 2009 |
Tomás Cano Binder, CT wrote: Aniello Scognamiglio wrote:
You misunderstood my comment. Oops! Sorry Aniello. Indeed I must have! I have deleted my comment as it was clearly clumsy. Sorry pal!
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