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"translators associations" or "translators' associations" ?
Konuyu gönderen: Tom in London
Milena Bosco (X)
Milena Bosco (X)  Identity Verified
İtalya
Local time: 11:39
İngilizce > İtalyanca
+ ...
A student's opinion Dec 8, 2008

Hi Tom, hi all.

I am not English mother tongue, I work in the Catalan>English, Italian>English pairs in very specific fields only.

When I was a student there was no "grey". Being a permanent "beginner" I can say that there is no grey at the moment either.

I am kind of "picky" though, when the language follows the degeneration of the ones who speak it I get chills.

For the ones among you who studied Italian there is some news:

1)"F... See more
Hi Tom, hi all.

I am not English mother tongue, I work in the Catalan>English, Italian>English pairs in very specific fields only.

When I was a student there was no "grey". Being a permanent "beginner" I can say that there is no grey at the moment either.

I am kind of "picky" though, when the language follows the degeneration of the ones who speak it I get chills.

For the ones among you who studied Italian there is some news:

1)"Familiare" (from the Latin "familia") has become "famigliare";
2)"A me piace" is now "A me mi piace";
3)"Gli" and "loro" are used as if they were the same thing; "ho detto loro", "gli ho detto"
4)"Che" is now often spelled as "ke" in informal language. This comes from the deep and pregnant communication through SMSs. Even my generation is going for it. I have a hard time when one of my best friends writes "TVTB", "CVD", "non ti preokkupare".
These are just a few examples.

Regards,

Milena ▲ Collapse
 
Charlie Bavington
Charlie Bavington  Identity Verified
Local time: 10:39
Fransızca > İngilizce
Plural qualifier Dec 10, 2008

Marc P wrote:
Correct me if I'm wrong, but as I see it, the argument for "translators association" is that it is a compound noun, like document template, nail clippers, milk shake, user manual or car industry.
....
The problem I have with "translators association" though is that the qualifier is usually in the singular.

Indeed. That was also the problem I had (see a few posts above) since that is indeed usually the case.

Perhaps someone can produce examples in which the qualifier is clearly plural and for which the plural form of the qualifier differs from the possessive. Otherwise, for the compound to be acceptable at all, I would expect it to be "translator association".

And as I said above, that would be a pretty exclusive association
Anyway, I have found an example - sadly it doesn't meet the second of your criteria, but for that to be the case, the noun would have to have an irregular plural anyway, whch narrows the scope somewhat.
The example is "parts warehouse". A "part warehouse" just doesn't sound right to me. (Whereas a "book warehouse" does, and "books warehouse very much less so.) OK, so one swallow doesn't make a summer, and we should allow for the fact that I may have an idiosyncratic appreciation of acceptability. However, does this sound like a contender for a compound noun with a plural qualifier?
(I am aware that "parts' warehouse" is also an option - in which case this is just another example of the same issue, which is what we are discussing.)

However, it appears to be much less common for persons to be used as qualifiers when a group is implied. "Child support", “customer satisfaction”, “patient care” may apply to a single child etc., but "translator association" can hardly apply to a single translator, since by definition, more than one are needed in order to form an association.

I do wonder whether the waters of pure grammar are muddied here by the effect of the actual meaning of what we are talking about - groups must involve plurals, as you say, and if the group is for people, well, surely it must 'belong' to them?
 
Tom in London
Tom in London
Birleşik Krallık
Local time: 10:39
Üye (2008)
İtalyanca > İngilizce
KONUYU BAŞLATAN
Muddy Waters Dec 10, 2008

Muddy Waters had a blues band (well, several, actually). It was known as The Muddy Waters Blues Band. Since it belonged to him, it was Muddy Waters' Blues Band.

I hear my phone ringing.....
 
Kathryn Sanderson
Kathryn Sanderson  Identity Verified
Amerika Birleşik Devletleri
Local time: 05:39
Fransızca > İngilizce
Muddy Waters's Usage Apr 16, 2009

Tom in London wrote:

Muddy Waters had a blues band (well, several, actually). It was known as The Muddy Waters Blues Band. Since it belonged to him, it was Muddy Waters' Blues Band.

I hear my phone ringing.....


Well, go and answer it!

I know this is an old thread, but I felt compelled to add my $.02 US.

Muddy worked on the south side of Chicago, so he probably used the Chicago Manual of Style. (Or would that be Chicago's Style Manual?)

"Muddy Waters's." I have mixed feelings about that one. It would seem to simplify rules governing apostrophes used in plural possessives, but does it?

During my misspent youth as a graduate student, I had occasion to read (or at least borrow from the library) "Rabelais's (sic) Carnival." I don't know what style manual the publishers used. Now I wonder: even if "Rabelais's" (as a possessive) is correct, does that rule apply to all singular nouns ending in "s," like Waters or Roberts, or just to those where the "s" is not pronounced, like Rabelais or Illinois.

I vacillate between prescriptivism and descriptivism, but for a long time I've thought that for practical reasons we should abolish the apostrophe in English, except for contractions. That would leave the its/it's problem, but it would be an improvement.

Kathy
 
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"translators associations" or "translators' associations" ?







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