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影响着汉语的生硬翻译 Konuyu gönderen: jyuan_us
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wherestip wrote:
James_xia wrote:
wherestip wrote:
James，
你可以保持你自己的意见。 我完全同意 pk 的看法。
Steve,
很高兴得闲参与您、pkchan大叔等其他同行朋友的探讨！任何讨论本产生于认识上的分歧。即使暂时无法求同，这也是完全可以理解的，因为结果并不存在经济利益上的冲突。就如我们的论坛，10几个人的发言回贴量并不代表数千人次的点击浏览和其他所有人的意见。虽如此，我们仍然要发言，因为发言的目的不是对错的实质性区分，而是为了在这个全球最大的专业论坛上 雁过留痕。:D
再过一会儿就到新年，祝您新年里一切吉祥如意！
James,
What you said is true. BTW, that reminds me of the silent majority comment Bin Tiede made a while back. 
Have a wonderful New Year. And the same goes to everyone here in the forum.
让我们明天——来年再见！
握手～
在此2012最后的几分钟里，借此论坛一角送各位新老朋友一首老歌——《愿你心中常驻芳华》：
也许隔着海角隔着天崖,
也许行色匆匆你刚刚赶回自己的家,
儿女灯前,父母膝下,
情谊殷殷,笑语喧哗。
今夕何夕
亲人如此盼望团聚,
今夕何夕
人们如此眷恋温馨的家,
可能是那一阵阵笑声溶解了一年的积闷,
可能是那一串串鞭炮送走了一年的疲乏。
祝福你爸爸,祝福你妈妈,
祝福你我的左邻我的右舍。
祝福你我的朋友我的冤家。
愿你心大志大,家大业大,
愿你种豆得豆,种瓜得瓜,
愿你总与幸福同在,
愿你心中永驻芳华！
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pkchan wrote:
“The new 5-Star Home Style Breader is uniquely designed to apply an appealing home style surface texture with consistency and high quality.
新式5星级家用上粉机采用独特的设计，漂亮的家居风格配以均匀一致和高品质的表面纹理。”
想要指出這5-Star 上粉机是部龐然大物，只適用於食品工場，決不是什麼“家用”、“家居风格”機器，無論“配以”什麼，更稱不上“漂亮”。翻譯就是要“处理译词的细节”，“王道”之所在。
这里的 Home Style 的译法的确值得探讨。
关于 Breader 的介绍，请参见以下链接：
http://www.21food.cn/product/detail292176.html
这里的上粉机/上屑机目的是为了给食品涂敷一层 appealing 漂亮/吸引人、home style （家做式/自然）的面粉或面包屑。
按我的理解，home style 强调的是，上粉/上屑的目的是为了使得食品看起来就像是在家里手动做出的一样，而不是像机器加工的一样。
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pkchan 
Amerika Birleşik Devletleri
Local time: 17:10
Üye (2006)
İngilizce > Çince
+ ...
“客户译审”我是擔不起的。用“專業機器”換來這“1500欧”就算作是“家用”吧。且看看Google的翻譯也很“家居”。
“The new 5-Star Home Style Breader is uniquely designed to apply an appealing home style surface texture with consistency and high quality.
新式5星级家用上粉机采用独特的设计，漂亮的家居风格配以均匀一致和高品质的表面纹理。”
新的5星級的家居風格Breader是唯一一個有吸引力的家居風格的一致性和高品質的表面紋理與應用。--Google 翻譯
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wherestip
Amerika Birleşik Devletleri
Local time: 16:10
Çince > İngilizce
+ ...
pkchan wrote:
“客户译审”我是擔不起的。用“專業機器”換來這“1500欧”就算作是“家用”吧。且看看Google的翻譯也很“家居”。
“The new 5-Star Home Style Breader is uniquely designed to apply an appealing home style surface texture with consistency and high quality.
新式5星级家用上粉机采用独特的设计，漂亮的家居风格配以均匀一致和高品质的表面纹理。”
新的5星級的家居風格Breader是唯一一個有吸引力的家居風格的一致性和高品質的表面紋理與應用。--Google 翻譯
Home-style 翻成 “家居風格” 我看问题不太大，当然可能有更好的译法。
“家用” 我认为是应算作错译的。
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wherestip wrote:
pkchan wrote:
“客户译审”我是擔不起的。用“專業機器”換來這“1500欧”就算作是“家用”吧。且看看Google的翻譯也很“家居”。
“The new 5-Star Home Style Breader is uniquely designed to apply an appealing home style surface texture with consistency and high quality.
新式5星级家用上粉机采用独特的设计，漂亮的家居风格配以均匀一致和高品质的表面纹理。”
新的5星級的家居風格Breader是唯一一個有吸引力的家居風格的一致性和高品質的表面紋理與應用。--Google 翻譯
Home-style 翻成 “家居風格” 我看问题不太大，当然可能有更好的译法。
“家用” 我认为是应算作错译的。
“家居风格”的译法比“家用”差得更远了！
问题是，“新式5星级家用上粉机采用独特的设计，漂亮的家居风格配以均匀一致和高品质的表面纹理。”这整句话的理解似乎有问题。
我感觉，“The new 5-Star Home Style Breader is uniquely designed to apply an appealing home style surface texture with consistency and high quality. 似乎说的是：
“The new 5-Star Home Style Breader is uniquely designed, which is used to apply an appealing home style surface texture with consistency and high quality.
当然，没有更多上下文，也可能我理解错了。
[Edited at 2012-12-31 16:18 GMT]
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wherestip
Amerika Birleşik Devletleri
Local time: 16:10
Çince > İngilizce
+ ...
| Difference of opinion | Dec 31, 2012 |
J.H. Wang wrote:
wherestip wrote:
pkchan wrote:
“客户译审”我是擔不起的。用“專業機器”換來這“1500欧”就算作是“家用”吧。且看看Google的翻譯也很“家居”。
“The new 5-Star Home Style Breader is uniquely designed to apply an appealing home style surface texture with consistency and high quality.
新式5星级家用上粉机采用独特的设计，漂亮的家居风格配以均匀一致和高品质的表面纹理。”
新的5星級的家居風格Breader是唯一一個有吸引力的家居風格的一致性和高品質的表面紋理與應用。--Google 翻譯
Home-style 翻成 “家居風格” 我看问题不太大，当然可能有更好的译法。
“家用” 我认为是应算作错译的。
“家居风格”的译法比“家用”差得更远了！
问题是，“新式5星级家用上粉机采用独特的设计，漂亮的家居风格配以均匀一致和高品质的表面纹理。”这整句话的理解似乎有问题。
我感觉，“The new 5-Star Home Style Breader is uniquely designed to apply an appealing home style surface texture with consistency and high quality. 似乎说的是：
“The new 5-Star Home Style Breader is uniquely designed, which is used to apply an appealing home style surface texture with consistency and high quality.
当然，没有更多上下文，也可能我理解错了。 [Edited at 2012-12-31 16:18 GMT]
J.H.,
I don't see it that way. Just like you said before, here the home-style adjective means that the bread crumbs or whatever is being applied to the product is applied as if it was done by hand.
家用 in my opinion is absolutely incorrect. 家居风格 is not ideal, but I wouldn't count it as wrong.
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| Sorry again！ | Dec 31, 2012 |
wherestip wrote:
J.H.,
I don't see it that way. Just like you said before, here the home-style adjective means that the bread crumbs or whatever is being applied to the product is applied as if it was done by hand.
家用 in my opinion is absolutely incorrect. 家居风格 is not ideal, but I wouldn't count it as wrong.
我前面说过了，这里home-style 的理解首先取决于整句话的理解。
The new 5-Star Home Style Breader is uniquely designed to apply an appealing home style surface texture with consistency and high quality.
一种理解是：新式5星级家用上粉机采用独特的设计，该机器具有漂亮的家居风格，并配以均匀一致和高品质的表面纹理。（大意）
我的理解是：新式5星级家用上粉机采用独特的设计，该机器用于给食品 apply an appealing home style surface texture with consistency and high quality。
这两种不同的理解，会对 home-style 的理解与翻译造成影响。
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| 两种不同理解对理解 texture 的影响 | Dec 31, 2012 |
nigerose wrote:
The new 5-Star Home Style Breader is uniquely designed to apply an appealing home style surface texture with consistency and high quality.
呵呵，这个属食品工程，刚好是我大学专业。
breader 滚面包屑机，参见《英汉食品工业词汇》
surface texture表面质构，参见
http://spxy2.zjgsu.edu.cn/spxy/SpxyArticleShow.asp?ParentID=0&ArticleID=1500
陈建设博士的学术报告主题为“蛋白粒子凝胶的表面质构（Surface Texture of Protein Particle Gels）”。他分别介绍了表面质构、蛋白粒子凝胶的研究现状及研究目的与意义，并对蛋白粒子凝胶表面质构可观察的不同技术、乳清蛋白凝胶加热后的表面摩擦力研究、影响蛋白粒子凝胶表面质构的可能因素以及最后的实验结论等方面进行了详细讲解。
consistency 稠度、浓度、粘度、坚度、一致性，参见《英汉食品工业词汇》 [修改时间: 2012-12-31 02:14 GMT]
同时，我前面所述的对整句话的不同理解，也会导致对 texture 的不同理解与翻译。
我这里同意 nigerose 的理解，texture 是指食品表面的 texture，而不是机器表面的 texture 。
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wherestip
Amerika Birleşik Devletleri
Local time: 16:10
Çince > İngilizce
+ ...
| Chinese Rendering | Dec 31, 2012 |
J.H. Wang wrote:
我的理解是：新式5星级家用上粉机采用独特的设计，该机器用于给食品 apply an appealing home style surface texture with consistency and high quality.
Your understanding is correct as far as I'm concerned. What I don't understand is your Chinese rendering. Why are you against "家居风格“？ Doesn't that just mean that the products come out as if they were home-made?
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wherestip wrote:
J.H. Wang wrote:
我的理解是：新式5星级家用上粉机采用独特的设计，该机器用于给食品 apply an appealing home style surface texture with consistency and high quality.
Your understanding is correct as far as I'm concerned. What I don't understand is your Chinese rendering. Why are you against "家居风格“？ Doesn't that just mean that the products come out as if they were home-made?
Hi, wherestip, 可能您长期不在国内，对家居的意思不太清楚，我下面提供一个链接：
http://baike.baidu.com/view/646017.htm
家居指的是家庭装修、家具、电器等一系列和居室有关的甚至包括地理位置（家居风水）都属于家居范畴。
我想，这样的话，很容易看出来为什么“家居风格”在这里不适用。
home style 定义:
[attrib.](N. Amer.)(especially of food) such as would be made or provided at home; simple and unpretentious
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wherestip
Amerika Birleşik Devletleri
Local time: 16:10
Çince > İngilizce
+ ...
I see what the problem is.
The fact is, I didn't read the Google Chinese translation that pk provided. My bad.
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pkchan
Amerika Birleşik Devletleri
Local time: 17:10
Üye (2006)
İngilizce > Çince
+ ...
| 5-Star Home Style Breader 原文 | Dec 31, 2012 |
Stein 5-Star Home Style Breader
The new 5-Star Home Style Breader is uniquely designed to apply an appealing home style surface texture with consistency and high quality.
5-Star Benefits
◦A home style surface texture consumers love
◦Improves product quality and consistency
◦Reduces amount of labor required to operate
◦Handles all flour and home style coatings
◦Easy to operate
◦Easy to clean
◦Superior dust containment ... See more Stein 5-Star Home Style Breader
The new 5-Star Home Style Breader is uniquely designed to apply an appealing home style surface texture with consistency and high quality.
5-Star Benefits
◦A home style surface texture consumers love
◦Improves product quality and consistency
◦Reduces amount of labor required to operate
◦Handles all flour and home style coatings
◦Easy to operate
◦Easy to clean
◦Superior dust containment
無論如何是說明用這部機器，所做成的產品有Home Style 的效果。不到“1500欧”非“譯審”的理解是類似簡單“家庭菜式”或“家常菜式”的烹調。By the way， 海鮮“雀巢”是一道很受歡迎的廣東“家常”菜式，請慢用！
[Edited at 2012-12-31 17:06 GMT] ▲ Collapse
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wherestip
Amerika Birleşik Devletleri
Local time: 16:10
Çince > İngilizce
+ ...
J.H. Wang wrote:
wherestip wrote:
J.H. Wang wrote:
我的理解是：新式5星级家用上粉机采用独特的设计，该机器用于给食品 apply an appealing home style surface texture with consistency and high quality.
Your understanding is correct as far as I'm concerned. What I don't understand is your Chinese rendering. Why are you against "家居风格“？ Doesn't that just mean that the products come out as if they were home-made?
Hi, wherestip, 可能您长期不在国内，对家居的意思不太清楚，我下面提供一个链接：
http://baike.baidu.com/view/646017.htm
家居指的是家庭装修、家具、电器等一系列和居室有关的甚至包括地理位置（家居风水）都属于家居范畴。
我想，这样的话，很容易看出来为什么“家居风格”在这里不适用。
home style 定义:
[attrib.](N. Amer.)(especially of food) such as would be made or provided at home; simple and unpretentious
也许是。 对我这个从来没听过 “家居风格” 这种中文说法的人来说，冷不丁的反应与理解就是 home-style。
可能“家厨风格” 更准确些吧。 ...
其实满拧的主要原因是因为我没仔细看 pk 的 Google 翻译结果。 我并不是说那结果是正确的 － 完全没有那个意思。
[Edited at 2013-01-01 02:18 GMT]
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wherestip wrote:
可能“家橱风格” 更准确些吧。 ...
还好，没有译成“江南Style”。
[Edited at 2012-12-31 17:13 GMT]
[Edited at 2012-12-31 17:13 GMT]
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Chunyi Chen
Amerika Birleşik Devletleri
Local time: 14:10
İngilizce > Çince
available是我覺得挺難翻的字之一，幾乎每次碰到視上下文不同都會有不同的譯法，很少可以套用現成的譯法。下次來試試＂有＂，這個字看起來好像能用上的情況比較多:)
另一個我覺得難譯的字是access，它的標準譯法＂存取＂似乎也符合＂生硬翻譯＂，而用於其他領域時又往往不適合以＂存取＂套用，總之是個難譯的字眼。
忘了註明"存取"是繁中的標準譯法。簡�... See more available是我覺得挺難翻的字之一，幾乎每次碰到視上下文不同都會有不同的譯法，很少可以套用現成的譯法。下次來試試＂有＂，這個字看起來好像能用上的情況比較多:)
另一個我覺得難譯的字是access，它的標準譯法＂存取＂似乎也符合＂生硬翻譯＂，而用於其他領域時又往往不適合以＂存取＂套用，總之是個難譯的字眼。
忘了註明"存取"是繁中的標準譯法。簡中應該叫＂訪問＂吧（在我看來也挺生硬費解的）。
Zhoudan wrote:
available 可用，availability 可用性
其实有时候翻成“有”就好了。
jyuan_us wrote:
Removal: 移除
Device:设备
Obtain: 获取
Apply:适用。 这个词非常有意思，有时是主语适用，有时是宾语适用，有时干脆见到APPLY就翻译为适用，不明白什么适用于什么。
This: 该。我记得20年前有一些高中毕业的同事分不清楚THIS 和THAT的中文，把本来该用此或本的地方说成该，现在好像这个词确实THIS 和THAT都可以指了
还有很多。见到了我就贴在这里。也欢迎各位分享你们见到的类似现象。
[Edited at 2012-12-31 20:22 GMT] ▲ Collapse
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