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Phil Hand 
China
Local time: 05:38
chinês para inglês
| "唯利是图” = pretty damn negative | May 17, 2012 |
I'm fairly sure Steve wasn't trying to claim that the word "despite" is negative because it shares an etymology with despise/spite.
The reason for the disagreement is now fairly clear: you *are* reading that sentence, in particular the phrase "strategic investor" as a negative phrase, for political reasons. Because you see it as negative, you use despite. (再次强调，不是因为despite本身有贬义的含义，而是因为despite一般出现在你说的“让步”句子中（... See more I'm fairly sure Steve wasn't trying to claim that the word "despite" is negative because it shares an etymology with despise/spite.
The reason for the disagreement is now fairly clear: you *are* reading that sentence, in particular the phrase "strategic investor" as a negative phrase, for political reasons. Because you see it as negative, you use despite. (再次强调，不是因为despite本身有贬义的含义，而是因为despite一般出现在你说的“让步”句子中（即先承认其差，再强调其好）。
I did not read that kind of leftist political meaning into that sentence at all, and that's why I would be cautious about using despite here.
Now, your understanding of this sentence is perfectly possible, but I have to say, a bit pragmatically unlikely. "Investor" hasn't been a negative term for a number of years now in China. In particular, the term "strategic investor" is a business term, used more by those in the business sector than in the political sector. So I think your politicised version is not the most likely reading of this sentence. But it is possible, and it is, as Steve said from the beginning, negative in tone about investors. ▲ Collapse
| | | | nigerose
China
Local time: 05:38
chinês para inglês
+ ...
Phil Hand wrote:
The reason for the disagreement is now fairly clear: you *are* reading that sentence, in particular the phrase "strategic investor" as a negative phrase, for political reasons. Because you see it as negative, you use despite. (再次强调，不是因为despite本身有贬义的含义，而是因为despite一般出现在你说的“让步”句子中（即先承认其差，再强调其好）。
“Despite his success”、"despite his achievements" 、“despite his good work”...... 这些都是先承认其好，再强调其差（不好的一面）。
说白了，despite就是表示转折的含义。
楼主的原文用“尽管“。在这里，”尽管“的词义就是”表示姑且承认某种事实,下文往往转折“（参见各种汉语词典）。
[修改时间: 2012-05-17 04:39 GMT]
| | | | Phil Hand
China
Local time: 05:38
chinês para inglês
| despite 不是转折，是直接冲突/让步/对比 | May 17, 2012 |
"despite就是表示转折的含义。"
No, that's not right. "despite" is more what you said before: 让步关系。
"Although" is often followed by what we might call a 转折. "Despite" generally comes before two clauses that are in direct contradiction.
Thus:
"Although you think he's great, I think he's rubbish." 并不同于 "Despite your thinking that he's great, I think think he's rubbish."
第一句“although"可以说更�... See more "despite就是表示转折的含义。"
No, that's not right. "despite" is more what you said before: 让步关系。
"Although" is often followed by what we might call a 转折. "Despite" generally comes before two clauses that are in direct contradiction.
Thus:
"Although you think he's great, I think he's rubbish." 并不同于 "Despite your thinking that he's great, I think think he's rubbish."
第一句“although"可以说更温和，允许前后两半句并存，而第二句"despite"形成某种冲突，我的意见否定了你的意见。
(As I say, this stuff is subtle. I'm not working from a dictionary here, these are pragmatic differences in usage.)
(This link is not authoritative, but it has someone explaining the difference I'm talking about in another way: ”the word "although" contrasts potential or assumed opposites, whereas "despite" contrasts known, irrefutable opposites." http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_is_the_difference_between_'despite'_and_'although' )
你所列的“Despite his success”等当然是可接受的，但与我们今天的话题无关，因为对于后半句你我他都有一致的感觉：后半句里的"解决思路"是好事。虽然"Despite 好 但 坏" 是不错的句型，但在这里不成立。楼主的句子，你的英文译法有：
"Despite X 但 好" [X=be strategic investor, 好=bring novel solutions]
在你这个句子中我自然而然就把X理解成坏事。这就是所谓的“negative tone"。
All of which you've just agreed to, when you said that in your reading, "investor" implies the very negative 唯利是图. What I'm saying is that
(1) Steve was right. Even if he didn't word it very precisely, his point was clear and correct.
(2) I disagree with your reading, but accept that it is a *possible* reading. ▲ Collapse
| | | | wherestip
Estados Unidos
Local time: 16:38
chinês para inglês
+ ...
Phil Hand wrote: "despite就是表示转折的含义。" No, that's not right. "despite" is more what you said before: 让步关系。 "Although" is often followed by what we might call a 转折. "Despite" generally comes before two clauses that are in direct contradiction. Thus: "Although you think he's great, I think he's rubbish." 并不同于 "Despite your thinking that he's great, I think think he's rubbish." 第一句“although"可以说更温和，允许前后两半句并存，而第二句"despite"形成某种冲突，我的意见否定了你的意见。 (As I say, this stuff is subtle. I'm not working from a dictionary here, these are pragmatic differences in usage.) (This link is not authoritative, but it has someone explaining the difference I'm talking about in another way: ”the word "although" contrasts potential or assumed opposites, whereas "despite" contrasts known, irrefutable opposites." http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_is_the_difference_between_'despite'_and_'although' ) 你所列的“Despite his success”等当然是可接受的，但与我们今天的话题无关，因为对于后半句你我他都有一致的感觉：后半句里的"解决思路"是好事。虽然"Despite 好 但 坏" 是不错的句型，但在这里不成立。楼主的句子，你的英文译法有： "Despite X 但 好" [X=be strategic investor, 好=bring novel solutions] 在你这个句子中我自然而然就把X理解成坏事。这就是所谓的“negative tone"。 All of which you've just agreed to, when you said that in your reading, "investor" implies the very negative 唯利是图. What I'm saying is that (1) Steve was right. Even if he didn't word it very precisely, his point was clear and correct. (2) I disagree with your reading, but accept that it is a *possible* reading.
Phil,
Thank you. You did a great job explaining the nuances. I take my hat off to you.
It's definitely not easy to explain the subtleties of a certain language that are not always documented, especially if your audience is not very receptive. I feel for you if this is what you have to deal with in real life, even if it's only on occasion. 
As frustrating as it might be, I still think a lot of people would benefit from discussions like this.
[Edited at 2012-05-17 20:14 GMT]
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