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of that name
so dark a passion may be known under so bright a name
Mar 17, 2016 16:19
8 yrs ago
English term

nor

Non-PRO English Art/Literary Poetry & Literature
Know then that in the time of the Great Rebellion (the history of which by the learned Lord Clarendon I most earnestly commend to your attention) this Manor of Baskerville was held by Hugo of that name, nor can it be gainsaid that he was a most wild, profane, and godless man.
(Nor is usually used when we speak about two things or persons. Here, the write just describes one person. please explain it how it is grammatically possible to use nor in this phrase. Thank you)
Responses
4 +7 and it cannot
4 +5 neither
5 +3 double negative
Change log

Mar 17, 2016 17:58: Steffen Walter changed "Field (specific)" from "Business/Commerce (general)" to "Poetry & Literature"

Mar 18, 2016 09:51: Yvonne Gallagher changed "Level" from "PRO" to "Non-PRO"

Votes to reclassify question as PRO/non-PRO:

Non-PRO (3): Tony M, Victoria Britten, Yvonne Gallagher

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Discussion

Charles Davis Mar 17, 2016:
Nor after a positive term This is not possible in modern English. "Nor" can only be used after a negative term: "not/neither X, nor Y". However, in seventeenth-century English it was possible to use "nor" like this, meaning "and not", after a positive term. Conan Doyle is imitating seventeenth-century English here; this is supposedly a historical manuscript on the legend of the Hound of the Baskervilles. Here's an example of the same thing, from John Donne's wonderful Elegy XVII:

"When I am gone, dream me some happiness;
Nor let thy looks our long-hid love confess"
Victoria Britten Mar 17, 2016:
@Asker Take all three answers and you have all the explanation you need, plus two alternative ways of saying it!

Responses

+7
5 mins
Selected

and it cannot

...be denied.
It's just old-fashioned English.
Peer comment(s):
agree Tony M
2 mins
neutral Sheila Wilson : Gainsaid is certainly old-fashioned, but I doubt it was ever right to use "nor" in this context // I'm sure typos have always been around :). And it cannot be denied/gainsaid is fine, IMO. But nor needs another negative to be present.
9 mins
I think Sir Arthur Conan Doyle knew what he was doing! It's a rather elegant shorthand which, as Tony points out, avoids a double negative.
agree Charles Davis : Sheila is wrong. "Nor" meaning "and not" after a positive term or statement was possible in seventeenth-century English, which Conan Doyle is imitating here.
1 hr
agree Rachel Fell
2 hrs
agree claude-andrew
2 hrs
agree David Hollywood : spot on Phil
10 hrs
agree Yvonne Gallagher
17 hrs
agree Ildiko Santana
3 days 11 hrs
Something went wrong...
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "Selected automatically based on peer agreement."
+3
7 mins

double negative

Although we don't usually think of it this way, 'nor' really means 'and not' — so this sentenc is really saying: "and it cannot be gainsaid that he was ..."

'gainsaid' is an old-fashioned word that today would be more likely rendered using words like 'denied' or 'contradicted' or 'doubted'.
Peer comment(s):
agree claude-andrew : I love "gainsay" and use it, much to the perplexity of my wife!
2 hrs
Thanks, Claude! Yes, I should imagine that might discountenance here somewhat ;-)
agree Tina Vonhof (X)
22 hrs
Thanks, Tina!
agree acetran
22 hrs
Thanks, A/T!
Something went wrong...
+5
12 mins

neither

www.bartleby.com › Reference › Quotations




"Neither can it be said..."

... that age in which she said, 'Silver and gold have I none.'”—“True, holy father,” replied Aquinas; “neither can she any longer say to the lame, 'Rise up and walk

:))
Peer comment(s):
agree Tony M : Yes, the use of both 'nor' and 'neither' in this way is archaic; cf. many older versions of the Bible.
13 mins
Thanks, Tony: fits in with the style of the text, methinks.. :))
agree claude-andrew
2 hrs
Thank you for your confirmation, claude-andrew. :))
agree David Hollywood : another workable option
10 hrs
Hi David, thank you for your confirmation. :))
agree acetran
22 hrs
Thanks for your confirmation & hope you have a good weekend, acetran. :))
agree Ildiko Santana
3 days 11 hrs
Thank you for your confirmation, Ildiko! :))
Something went wrong...
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