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English translation: Not a metaphor: an actual sign made by crossing both forearms
18:57 Jun 29, 2014
Spanish to English translations [PRO] Social Sciences - Social Science, Sociology, Ethics, etc.
Spanish term or phrase:aspa de rechazo
from an academic book on the recent/current socioeconomic situation in Spain (also written in Peninsular Spanish), referring to all the public speeches in plazas around about May 2011 and the people's reception of them. Target audience is English-speaking academics interested in this topic.
full sentence: Las aspas de rechazo se levantaban enseguida contra los discursos más automáticos, más codificados, menos afectados por la situación.
So what I'm wondering is if this is something metaphorical (e.g., raise their voices in rejection), or is there some kind of sign or banner or some other physical object (the "aspa") that people would hold up at rallies when they heard something they didn't like. If the latter, I'd really like a good word for it: somehow, "cross of rejection" simplemente no me suena. But is that actually it?
Explanation: Since I attended several of the 11M meetings, I think I can shed some light on the matter of the "aspa".
The dynamics of popular meetings of the 11M movement aimed at ensuring a widespread participation of the audience. Anyone who had something to say was welcome to do so, in a "speaker's corner" kind of fashion. In order to ensure that everyone was heard, a system of signs or gestures was developed to express agreement or dissent silently and without hindering verbal communication: instead of clapping, agreement was expressed by raising both hands in the air and twisting them (like the deaf people's applause). You can see a few people "clapping silently" like that (along with some "loud clapping" as well) around the 2:12 mark of this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cZHx2jwhQgA
Disagreement, on the other hand, was expressed by raising both forearms crossed, forming an "aspa". I couldn't find any online video example of this (it seems that videos where people disagreed did not become as popular), but I have no doubt that the "aspa del rechazo" in your text refers to this disagreement sign.
-------------------------------------------------- Note added at 1 día1 hora (2014-06-30 20:08:44 GMT) --------------------------------------------------
Thanks, from the context I thought it must be some kind of visual something, whether a gesture or a flag. This was very helpful! 4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer
Hello again! Since the question is closed and I cannot update my answer, I'm posting a discussion entry to leave this page showing the most common gestures or signs used in the 15M meetings, in which you can clearly see the "aspa" of disagreement:
Like Helena, I have tried this expression on my in-house consultant (peninsular Spanish native speaker and language teacher with very good knowledge of the subject matter) and was met with a blank look: no idea what the writer could have meant. I think it's probably insoluble, short of locating the author and asking him or her.
Sorry if I misunderstood you. Your quotation from the www.casareal.es site, added to the fact that the aspa is in fact Spanish monarchist symbol (albeit rather an obscure one), led me to think that's what you were suggesting.
Considering the text that follows, I think the rejection is more from bored disgust than militant objection. As I read it, the public is tired of speeches that mouth platitudes and sugar-coat the real situation. IMHO, it's more important to find a "dynamic equivalent" (a la Eugene Nida) than to focus on the meaning of "aspas".
Sorry, but the idea of the 15-M protesters waving Spanish monarchist symbols in the current climate is quite unrealistic. And anyway, although the aspa may be such a symbol in theory, it's never used as such in practice. Monarchists just wave the Spanish flag, if they wave anything. People in the 15-M movement, on the other hand, don't go in for flags, except perhaps the Spanish republican flag (we have a couple of those at home and often carry them in demonstrations).
The aspa (the cross of Burgundy or St Andrew's cross) is completely absent from current Spanish political symbolism. Yes, it was a Carlist symbol. But the Carlists, for practical purposes, have been extinct for some time. Its Francoist associations are very remote. And apart from the Carlist angle it's not, to my knowledge, a Basque nationalist symbol. In any case, this is talking about the 15-M movement, which has nothing to do with any of those groups: indeed, it could hardly be more remote from them.
If "aspa" meant a banner or flag, then levantar + aspa might be a natural collocation. But as far as I can see there's no reason at all to think that it does mean that here. It doesn't normally. It only could as a metonym: a banner bearing an aspa. But as I say, this is incongruous.
Levantar+aspa is the natural colocation (rather than windmills).
The aspa is associated with Carlists, the Franco regime and Basque nationalism (and likely others). The article may well suggest which to the asker - I haven't read it. In part at least it's about the protest movement Moviemiento 15-M http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Movimiento_15-M
"... ayudando a sustituir el alzamiento de un pesado objeto metálico por la representación de éste bordada sobre un paño y unida a un asta, cuyo resultado es un objeto ligero, fácilmente transportable y visible sobre las cabezas de los combatientes." http://www.casareal.es/VA/corona/Paginas/simbolos.aspx
Do you think "raising a flag" is a natural metaphor for expressing rejection? I don't. And what are these "strong associations" of "aspa" with Spanish political groupings?
I'm quite prepared to believe that the author had a reason for using this striking phrase. If we knew what he/she meant by it, we could have a go at finding an equivalent. But I don't think we do. The proposals already on the table sound strange to me. I doubt this has anything to do with flags, crosses or sails.
But I think that if I had to do this, given the degree of doubt about the exact sense of the metaphor (and it must be metaphorical, surely), I'd be tempted to reduce it to something like "more automatic speeches were met with signs of rejection" or perhaps better "were poorly received" or "were given a (more) hostile reception": something fairly general like that.
I think it might be referring to the expression "hacer aspas", which can mean to wave your arms around (the metaphor comes from a resemblance to a windmill, I think). So when people heard speeches not to their liking they waved their arms as a sign of rejection, maybe?
The "levantaban", in this interpretation, would be people raising their arms prior to waving them as a sign of disagreement and rejection (maybe).
So would you say, then, Helena, that this is not a "modismo"/set phrase for which I should try to find something similar in English? I was rather thinking along the same lines as DLyon, with waving flags of rejection, but I wanted to make sure first that there wasn't some standard interpretation I was overlooking.
I think this is the meaning - that people almost instinctively rejected the same old answers...
Edward Tully Local time: 11:43 Native speaker of: English PRO pts in category: 92
5 hrs confidence:
lances of rejection
Explanation: I reckon they might mean "asta"... and the image of aising the lances sounds apt: "Arma ofensiva de los antiguos romanos, compuesta de hierro, astil y regatón, que se empleaba como lanza, y también como dardo, para arrojarla con la mano contra el enemigo"
-------------------------------------------------- Note added at 5 hrs (2014-06-30 00:05:50 GMT) --------------------------------------------------
Las aspas de rechazo se levantaban enseguida -> "Lances of repudiation/rejection were immediately raised..."
-------------------------------------------------- Note added at 5 hrs (2014-06-30 00:06:23 GMT) --------------------------------------------------
Explanation: I think you're basically looking for a type of English metaphor or idiom indicating that they had no use for those types of empty speeches and quickly stopped listening. Turned a blind eye... Gave the cold shoulder to... I don't think you want to write anything about the fan blades of rejection. Lol. Like Helena said, it's metaphor. Regardless of how academically brilliant the audience might be, they still need it to make sense.
Anthony Mazzorana (X) United States Local time: 05:43 Native speaker of: English
Not a metaphor: an actual sign made by crossing both forearms
Explanation: Since I attended several of the 11M meetings, I think I can shed some light on the matter of the "aspa".
The dynamics of popular meetings of the 11M movement aimed at ensuring a widespread participation of the audience. Anyone who had something to say was welcome to do so, in a "speaker's corner" kind of fashion. In order to ensure that everyone was heard, a system of signs or gestures was developed to express agreement or dissent silently and without hindering verbal communication: instead of clapping, agreement was expressed by raising both hands in the air and twisting them (like the deaf people's applause). You can see a few people "clapping silently" like that (along with some "loud clapping" as well) around the 2:12 mark of this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cZHx2jwhQgA
Disagreement, on the other hand, was expressed by raising both forearms crossed, forming an "aspa". I couldn't find any online video example of this (it seems that videos where people disagreed did not become as popular), but I have no doubt that the "aspa del rechazo" in your text refers to this disagreement sign.
-------------------------------------------------- Note added at 1 día1 hora (2014-06-30 20:08:44 GMT) --------------------------------------------------
Sorry, I meant 15M instead of 11M!
Alicia Pallas Spain Local time: 11:43 Works in field Native speaker of: Spanish, Galician PRO pts in category: 4
Grading comment
Thanks, from the context I thought it must be some kind of visual something, whether a gesture or a flag. This was very helpful!
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peer agreement (net): +1
