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Glossary entry

German term or phrase:

öffentliches Mädchen

English translation:

woman of the street

Added to glossary by Rachel Ward
Dec 14, 2011 14:55
12 yrs ago
1 viewer *
German term

öffentliches Mädchen

German to English Art/Literary History 19th century Berlin
I get the general idea here, but am struggling to find an English euphemism that catches the same tone.

Any thoughts?

It relates to Fontane's "Von Zwanzig bis Dreißig":
Dazu Alma, »eine kleine, sehr wohlgenährte Person mit roten Backen und großen schwarzen Augen, die mit seltner Stupidität in die Welt blickten. Ihre Hauptschönheit und zugleich auch das Zeichen ihres Berufes war eine mit minutiöser Sorgfalt gepflegte Sechse, die sie glatt angeklebt zwischen Ohr und Schläfe trug.« Vater Fontäne, als er seinen Sohn besuchte, erkannte sachverständig sofort Alma als **öffentliches Mädchen**. Solche täuschten gern mit dem Familienstand »Witwe« die Sittenpolizei.
Proposed translations (English)
3 +3 woman of the street
4 +1 lady of pleasure; fancy woman
3 +1 working girl
3 hireling
2 +1 public body
2 +1 girl/woman of ill repute
3 courtesan
References
Possibly interesting quote

Discussion

hazmatgerman (X) Dec 15, 2011:
@Helen Shiner, thankx for the background, and your posting may have crossed with my private mail. As I value your knowledge of period and culture, I can only nod. Tip to the hat.
Helen Shiner Dec 15, 2011:
Hi hazmatgerman The problem with both of your terms (the latter sounds a bit late, 1920s springs to mind, though that is just a gut feeling) is that they could be applied to any woman with slightly less than 'respectable' behaviour. They go far beyond prostitution and would have included flirting, being seen in public unchaperoned, etc. Women could lose their reputations for the slightest of reasons. The GER term is far more direct.
hazmatgerman (X) Dec 15, 2011:
@R.Ward if you look down at my first comment you will find two phrases (hussy and fast girl) which are indeed recorded in my period dics of the late 19th and early 20th century); perhaps they have been overlooked as I do not enter terms as answers any more. Regards.
Rachel Ward (asker) Dec 15, 2011:
@ Phil I've tried thesaureses obviously, but couldn't find anything that quite caught the tone. I thought perhaps somebody here might know a suitable period phrase that was escaping me.
hazmatgerman (X) Dec 14, 2011:
After checking with the OED (except 4. Supplement), SOED, Websters up to 2003 and online, American Heritage, and latest Collins the term "working girl" in this sense is not on record for any period prior to the 1980. Therefore is is not suitable for the feel of a turn-of-the-century text. Besides, IMO "öffentliches Mädchen" is not as innocent as it sounds, rather one might call it euphemistic or even putting a gloss on the truth, beschönigen. Its meaning and function would have been quite clear to the man on the street in the 1910s.
Ramey Rieger (X) Dec 14, 2011:
the beauty of it is the absolute vagueness - a perfect euphemism! Anything indicating reputation or even hinting at it is a dilution. Whatever you choose, it must be - in my opinion of course - quite harmless in itself. "Working girl" is my favourite.
Usch Pilz Dec 14, 2011:
I'm torn between the 'working girl' (nice to hang on to the 'Mädchen/girl') and the girl/woman of ill repute. It really depends on the register of the text as such.
philgoddard Dec 14, 2011:
Rachel This is not really a translation question, because you and we know exactly what it means. We could post any number of answers, but the choice is ultimately down to you. Why don't you try thesaurus.com?
hazmatgerman (X) Dec 14, 2011:
perhaps terms such as "fast girl" or "hussy" will give period results on the net.

Proposed translations

+3
9 hrs
Selected

woman of the street

I believe this would be the right register and tone. Can't help thinking of the phrase: 'she was no better than she ought to be.' (which would not be.) I'm not sure there is too much approbation in the German term, almost just a question of her status. There was great anxiety in many European countries at the time about women appearing in the public sphere and not be easily distinguishable from 'honest women.' I presume such tiny markers of difference like the kiss curl were heavily laden for viewers/men on the street and may have saved a few blushes.


--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 day4 hrs (2011-12-15 19:17:19 GMT) Post-grading
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Thanks, Rachel, glad to help.
Peer comment(s):
agree Alison MacG : I think this is the most appropriate of all the suggestions so far. There is even an argument for simply "common prostitute", with "öffentlich" indicating general availability
10 hrs
Thanks, Alison, yes, it just depends on the tone of the text and the degree of euphemism, however slight.
agree hazmatgerman (X) : Having complete trust in your period knowledge I agree right away; only saw this now.
11 hrs
Thanks, hazmatgerman. I guess the GER emphasises the distinction between domestic/public spheres.
agree seehand
12 hrs
Thank you, seehand
Something went wrong...
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "Thanks Helen - spot on!"
13 mins

hireling

nice and euphemistic, isn't it?

lady of the night
Peer comment(s):
neutral hazmatgerman (X) : I quite like the lady, but why at night only?
1 hr
idiomatic, once again
neutral Birgit Gläser : a hireling is someone hired to do menial work - usually not of a sexual nature
5 hrs
Yes, it is a stretch, isn't it?
Something went wrong...
+1
22 mins

public body

sorry - couldn't resist

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 24 mins (2011-12-14 15:20:08 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Maybe: nice little tart?
Peer comment(s):
neutral hazmatgerman (X) : nice little tart - this sounds mighty strong, does it not? Regards.//Tasty – I like that one. Regards.
6 hrs
Quite tasty, I thought. Ah well, thanks anyway.
agree Cilian O'Tuama : made me snigger, but not to be taken seriously, of course
7 hrs
No, especially not considering the period. But thanks.
Something went wrong...
+1
27 mins

working girl

How about this?
Reference:

http://thesaurus.com/browse/whore

Peer comment(s):
agree Horst Huber (X) : For Fontane's somewhat gentle sarcasm, I would choose this, or "woman of the profession".
3 hrs
Thanks.
agree Ramey Rieger (X) : very well done!
4 hrs
Thanks!
neutral Birgit Gläser : I think this was coined much later - I can not say that I've come across it in historical novels
4 hrs
You may be right.
disagree hazmatgerman (X) : With the reason surmised by Ms. Gläser above.
6 hrs
neutral Helen Shiner : This is too modern a term. I would think it dates from the 1980s or later.
19 hrs
Something went wrong...
+1
38 mins

girl/woman of ill repute

perhaps, in line with:
ein öffentliches Haus (euph) a house of ill repute (euph);
Peer comment(s):
agree Ingeborg Gowans (X)
16 mins
disagree Ramey Rieger (X) : much too blatant for such a nice euphemism// Which is exactly why the euphemism is so vital.
4 hrs
No reason for nice euph. considering "das Zeichen ihres Berufes" and "Sittenpolizei"? // So, so.
agree hazmatgerman (X) : I tend to see this a suitable but am not sure about its currency at the time.//tx; house of the rising sun remembrance then. Best.
6 hrs
I'd have thought it to be a common term in 19th Century, from the little I've read. And the meaning has probably changed over the years too. But CL still low.
Something went wrong...
5 hrs

courtesan

often used in historical romances... also I'd still prefer the good old "whore" over the other suggestions
Peer comment(s):
neutral hazmatgerman (X) : would that not have been a girl kept by a single patron, rather than one of loose morals?
1 hr
Something went wrong...
+1
5 hrs

lady of pleasure; fancy woman

:o)
Peer comment(s):
agree Johanna Timm, PhD : "fancy woman" would be a historically appropriate (Victorian) term; http://www.census1891.com/occupations-f.htm http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/fancy woman http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~usgwkidz/oldjobs.htm
1 hr
Thank you very much!
neutral Helen Shiner : 'Fancy woman' generally refers to a 'bit on the side', a mistress, not a prostitute.
4 hrs
Something went wrong...

Reference comments

19 hrs
Reference:

Possibly interesting quote

Und wenn Sie sich ansehen, dass eine Frau, die ohne männliche Begleitung im 19. Jahrhundert im öffentlichen Raum der Stadt sich bewegte, als fille publique galt, das heißt als öffentliches Mädchen, als Prostituierte, dann werden Sie wahrscheinlich sehr misstrauisch werden gegenüber der These, dass heutige öffentliche Räume weniger zugänglich wären als im 19. Jahrhundert oder gar in der griechischen Polis.
http://www.eventkultur-lab.de/img/static/uUpload/festival_si...
Something went wrong...
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