Glossary entry (derived from question below)
French term or phrase:
sans qualifications vs sans diplôme
English translation:
no occupational qualification vs. no school diploma
Added to glossary by
Drmanu49
Jul 20, 2006 09:18
17 yrs ago
French term
sans qualifications vs sans diplôme
French to English
Social Sciences
Education / Pedagogy
International definition of acdemic failure:
La sortie sans qualifications ou sans diplôme d’un élève du système scolaire (définition internationale)
sans qualification = unskilled
sans diplôme = without qualifications
Are these the right terms?
I know that diplome can be translated as diploma/degree, but I think that qualification is more appropriate in the school system context.
La sortie sans qualifications ou sans diplôme d’un élève du système scolaire (définition internationale)
sans qualification = unskilled
sans diplôme = without qualifications
Are these the right terms?
I know that diplome can be translated as diploma/degree, but I think that qualification is more appropriate in the school system context.
Proposed translations
(English)
3 +2 | no occupational qualification vs. no school diploma | Drmanu49 |
3 | with no specified level of achievement nor a diploma | RHELLER |
2 | unqualified | Sandra Petch |
Proposed translations
+2
1 hr
Selected
no occupational qualification vs. no school diploma
More context would be needed
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
Comment: "Selected automatically based on peer agreement."
1 hr
unqualified
A tricky one!
Possibly "qualifications" refers to vocational training such as a BTS and "diplôme" refers to "academic" diplomas, mainly the Bac.
For example, this extract from the Sénat website:
"Ce dispositif vise les jeunes de 16 à 25 ans, sans diplôme, sans qualification professionnelle ou avec un niveau de qualification inférieur à un diplôme de second cycle long de l'enseignement général, technologique ou professionnel."
In the UK at least, I don't think this distinction would be made. One would say "unqualified school-leavers".
Hope this helps a little.
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Note added at 7 hrs (2006-07-20 16:43:51 GMT)
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Everything I've looked at online refers to "unqualified school-leavers". "Unskilled" is used to describe a job that doesn't require qualifications. So if you are unqualified you're more than likely to end up in an unskilled job. I've been trying to find out more about this "international definition" your text refers to but no luck so far. If you have any more details of that it would be something to follow up.
One way to make the distinction could be "no vocational or academic qualifications."
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Note added at 7 hrs (2006-07-20 16:46:08 GMT)
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From a UK government website
Choosing between academic and vocational qualifications
From GCSEs to GNVQs there are lots of different qualifications to choose from. If you're thinking about learning as an adult for the first time you should decide whether to study towards a standard school qualification or something related to your work.
The benefits of academic qualifications
An academic course could be right for you if you want a qualification that shows you've achieved a certain educational standard. Traditional academic qualifications you can get from school demonstrate a certain level of analytical and critical skill. These are important skills needed in most jobs.
Many jobs ask for a good standard of education, such as five GCSEs (General Certificate of Secondary Education), good A levels, or sometimes a degree. Often they won't specify particular subjects, they just want evidence of general educational achievement.
The benefits of vocational and work-related qualifications
For some jobs and professions you will need to demonstrate practical skills as well as theoretical knowledge. Some employers value a practical vocational course that provides the specific skills needed for the job. You might prefer a vocational qualification if you know what job you want and you enjoy learning practical skills.
This works if we can be sure that this is the distinction being made in French!
Possibly "qualifications" refers to vocational training such as a BTS and "diplôme" refers to "academic" diplomas, mainly the Bac.
For example, this extract from the Sénat website:
"Ce dispositif vise les jeunes de 16 à 25 ans, sans diplôme, sans qualification professionnelle ou avec un niveau de qualification inférieur à un diplôme de second cycle long de l'enseignement général, technologique ou professionnel."
In the UK at least, I don't think this distinction would be made. One would say "unqualified school-leavers".
Hope this helps a little.
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 7 hrs (2006-07-20 16:43:51 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
Everything I've looked at online refers to "unqualified school-leavers". "Unskilled" is used to describe a job that doesn't require qualifications. So if you are unqualified you're more than likely to end up in an unskilled job. I've been trying to find out more about this "international definition" your text refers to but no luck so far. If you have any more details of that it would be something to follow up.
One way to make the distinction could be "no vocational or academic qualifications."
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 7 hrs (2006-07-20 16:46:08 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
From a UK government website
Choosing between academic and vocational qualifications
From GCSEs to GNVQs there are lots of different qualifications to choose from. If you're thinking about learning as an adult for the first time you should decide whether to study towards a standard school qualification or something related to your work.
The benefits of academic qualifications
An academic course could be right for you if you want a qualification that shows you've achieved a certain educational standard. Traditional academic qualifications you can get from school demonstrate a certain level of analytical and critical skill. These are important skills needed in most jobs.
Many jobs ask for a good standard of education, such as five GCSEs (General Certificate of Secondary Education), good A levels, or sometimes a degree. Often they won't specify particular subjects, they just want evidence of general educational achievement.
The benefits of vocational and work-related qualifications
For some jobs and professions you will need to demonstrate practical skills as well as theoretical knowledge. Some employers value a practical vocational course that provides the specific skills needed for the job. You might prefer a vocational qualification if you know what job you want and you enjoy learning practical skills.
This works if we can be sure that this is the distinction being made in French!
Note from asker:
So would you just use "unqualified" to cover both French terms? Thanks |
16 hrs
with no specified level of achievement nor a diploma
You might want to post this in the French-French section.
My understanding of qualification is that it is some achievement but a lesser achievement than a diploma/degree.
For example: Bob finished 2 years of medical school. He is not degreed but everyone knows that he has some knowledge.
Also there are some "étapes" for French adolescents that may be required for continuation but do not merit a diploma.
Failure: a student who leaves the school system with no specified level of achievement nor a diploma.
To certify individual students as having attained specified levels of achievement. darwin.nap.edu/books/0309083001/html/30.html
My understanding of qualification is that it is some achievement but a lesser achievement than a diploma/degree.
For example: Bob finished 2 years of medical school. He is not degreed but everyone knows that he has some knowledge.
Also there are some "étapes" for French adolescents that may be required for continuation but do not merit a diploma.
Failure: a student who leaves the school system with no specified level of achievement nor a diploma.
To certify individual students as having attained specified levels of achievement. darwin.nap.edu/books/0309083001/html/30.html
Discussion
Deux indicateurs sont en effet couramment retenus dans les expertises internationales pour le mesurer :
- la sortie sans qualifications ou sans diplôme d’un élève du système scolaire (définition internationale) ;
- les difficultés de maîtrise des savoirs fondamentaux, ayant des conséquences dans la vie sociale et professionnelle (définition française).