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незнание языка

English translation: caused by having no command of Georgian (language) / by non-acquaintance with Georgian (language)

GLOSSARY ENTRY (DERIVED FROM QUESTION BELOW)
Russian term or phrase:незнание языка
English translation:caused by having no command of Georgian (language) / by non-acquaintance with Georgian (language)
Entered by: Vitaly Kisin

17:41 Jan 9, 2007
Russian to English translations [PRO]
Social Sciences - General / Conversation / Greetings / Letters / interethnic conflicts
Russian term or phrase: незнание языка
Не поможете ли подобрать существительное для "незнания" во фразах типа "проблемы/настороженность/враждебность, вызванные незнанием грузинского/etc/ языка национальными меньшинствами". I have a feeling that `ignorance of a language', or `inability to communicate in a language' each have a narrow sense and that I need some sort of `un-knowledge'. I'd love to come up with something like what I. Azimov invented with nowhen, anywhen etc. Thanks in advance
Vitaly Kisin
Local time: 23:02
caused by having no command of Georgian (language) / by non-acquaintance with Georgian (language)
Explanation:
Поискал варианты к "владению языком", нашел command of a language и "acquaintance with a language" и сделал обратные версии, соответствующие невладению, т.е. незнанию:

caused by having no command of Georgian (language)
caused by non-acquaintance with Georgian (language)


--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 4 days (2007-01-14 08:33:09 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

кстати non-acquaintance также переводится как "незнание", "незнакомство"
Selected response from:

Vitali Stanisheuski
Belarus
Local time: 01:02
Grading comment
Thanks Vitali, I'llbe able to use this somewhere in the text; alas, the noun I needed with this plain meaning was not offered - does not exist. Each other version has a specific and undesirable overtone
2 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer



Summary of answers provided
3 +13можно перестроить фразу
Kirill Semenov
4 +5lack of language skills
Anton Konashenok
3 +5language barrier
Roman Bardachev
4 +2inability to speak the language
matryona
4failure to communicate in Georgian
Irene N
5 -1hardly speak any Georgian...
Max Masutin
4 -1[due to] lack of [Georgian among]
Alexander Demidov
4 -1deficiency in language
Sergei Nikolenko
3caused by having no command of Georgian (language) / by non-acquaintance with Georgian (language)
Vitali Stanisheuski


Discussion entries: 7





  

Answers


3 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5 peer agreement (net): +13
можно перестроить фразу


Explanation:
А зачем следовать дословно оригиналу? Можно перестроить как-нибудь, например, "(caused by the fact that) the ethnic minorities do not speak/know Georgian".

Kirill Semenov
Ukraine
Local time: 01:02
Works in field
Native speaker of: Native in RussianRussian
PRO pts in category: 148

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Sergei Tumanov
7 mins
neutral  Anton Konashenok: your variant will somewhat erode the theme-rheme relationship in the phrase ;; Приезжайте в Чехию - быстро проникнетесь прелестью глагола как самой продуктивной части речи :-))
9 mins
  -> Я бы и по-русски писал "не знают". Отглагольные существительные ужасны, их тут легко можно избежать, ещё и страдательный залог зачем-то. + Так и в русском глаголы всегда лучше. Насчет "темы-ремы" я, кстати, не понял.
agree  Henry Schroeder: I would also rephase it. Anything resembling the original will sound terrible in English, and not just the незнание but also the национальными...
22 mins
  -> And the source itself is far from good style in Russian
agree  Larissa Boutrimova: Я бы тоже не стала усложнять - "because they don’t speak the language". Keep it simple :)
27 mins
  -> ага, `KISS principle'. :)
agree  GaryG: I would use "inability to speak" in most contexts; "cluelessness" явно не подходит :-)
1 hr
  -> doesn't "inability to speak" sounds as if "being mute"? (or should I say "verbally handicapped"?)
agree  Vanessa Fuller: if the source text is lacking, then i would say rewrite/phrase as necessary.
2 hrs
  -> the grammar of the source is OK, but the style is rather bureaucratic
agree  Vladimir Lioukaikine (X): За перестройку - do not/cannot speak the language.
3 hrs
agree  Valery Kaminski
4 hrs
agree  Sophia Hundt (X): seems like a good solution.
8 hrs
agree  Irina Romanova-Wasike: я тоже придерживаюсь принципа KISS, зачем искать подспудный смысл там где все более или менее однозначно?
13 hrs
  -> Чтобы звучало "внушительнее". ;-) Громоздкие отглагольные сущ-ные и страд. залоги - типичный канцелярит.
agree  Konstantin Kisin: restructuring the sentence is often the best way ;)
18 hrs
  -> В данном случае - в обоих языках ;)
agree  Anastasia Novoselova
20 hrs
agree  Olga B
1 day 5 hrs
agree  tanyazst
1 day 17 hrs
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11 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +5
lack of language skills


Explanation:
quite neutral and generalized, I think

Anton Konashenok
Czech Republic
Local time: 00:02
Native speaker of: Native in RussianRussian, Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 72

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Anton Agafonov (X)
11 mins
agree  Alexander Onishko
24 mins
agree  Vladimir Dubisskiy: indeed.."lack of XYZ language skills". Because if one puts "they don't speak" it implies smth like "they must (but don't)" which is incorrect.
25 mins
  -> Thanks. Precisely my point.
neutral  Mikhail Kropotov: This is just wrong. Everyone has language skills -- in his or her language.
32 mins
  -> Please see Vladimir's comment: "lack of Georgian language skills" or the like
agree  Tevah_Trans: hostility/animosity caused by the language barrier between Georgians and national minorities
45 mins
agree  Alexander Demyanov
1 hr
neutral  Vladimir Lioukaikine (X): lack of language skills presupposes that a person knows the language already and it's just that certain skills are missing (writing skills, speaking, listening)
3 hrs
agree  Olga Cartlidge: (to Vladimir Lioukakine) : Lack of language skills does not imply anything other than zero language skills and is perfectly OK to use here.
6 hrs
disagree  Konstantin Kisin: This is wrong for the reasons stated by Mikhail and Vladimir Lioukaikine. Dubisskiy's explanation is also wrong - it does not imply "must".
17 hrs
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16 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5 peer agreement (net): +5
language barrier


Explanation:
hostility caused by the Georgian-language barrier experienced by the national minorities


Roman Bardachev
Canada
Local time: 16:02
Works in field
Native speaker of: Russian
PRO pts in category: 74

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  koundelev
4 mins
  -> Thank you, George
agree  novjak
14 mins
  -> Thank you, novjak
agree  Anton Konashenok
18 mins
  -> Thank you, Anton
neutral  Mikhail Kropotov: A language barrier cannot be attributed to a single language. It has to separate several things. // see A.D.'s comment
28 mins
  -> Could you be a little more precise? Exactly what several things does it have to separate?
agree  Alexander Demyanov: just "language barrier", not "xxx-language barrier"
56 mins
  -> Thank you, Alexander
neutral  Larissa Boutrimova: Language barrier, по-моему, здесь не пойдет, просто потому, что в исходнике другое. Да хотя бы сделать обратный перевод ... "Незнание языка" и "языковой барьер" - не одно и то же. Одно - причина, другое - следствие. + А к точности? :)
9 hrs
  -> Моя любовь к подстрочнику находится в зачаточном состоянии ))
agree  Zamira B.
11 hrs
  -> Thank you, Zamira
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4 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5
failure to communicate in Georgian


Explanation:
Vitaly, just for the heck of it, google "failure to communicate". Maybe you'll find it useful and fit for different phrases.

Irene N
United States
Local time: 17:02
Works in field
Native speaker of: Native in RussianRussian
PRO pts in category: 21

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
neutral  Konstantin Kisin: Sounds like they can speak Georgian but for some sinister reason "fail" to do so...would you agree?
13 hrs
  -> Неи, Костя, не согласна. Failure is not an option. Я поэтому и предложила пошуровать и посмотреть, в каких контекстах это употребляется.
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12 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): -1
[due to] lack of [Georgian among]


Explanation:
based on the model "lack of English among" googled.

Alexander Demidov
Local time: 01:02
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: Native in RussianRussian

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
disagree  Konstantin Kisin: sorry but this is not English
5 hrs
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1 hr   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): -1
deficiency in language


Explanation:
animousity caused by their deficiency in Georgian language

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 18 hrs (2007-01-10 12:19:48 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Another example at http://www.uofaweb.ualberta.ca/gfcpolicymanual/content.cfm?I...
A non-English speaking student with no equivalence for English 30 upon admission must make up this deficiency by successfully completing the examination of Level III of English as a Second Language offered by the Faculty of Extension.

Example sentence(s):
  • ...reported some deficiency in English... (phrase taken from the web)
Sergei Nikolenko
Local time: 01:02
Native speaker of: Russian

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
disagree  Konstantin Kisin: sorry but this is not English// You do realise that the document you cite makes completely different use of the sentence you put forward, don't you?
16 hrs
  -> If you mean that my phrase does not sound like proper English, see an example of an official document at: http://www.uofaweb.ualberta.ca/gfcpolicymanual/content.cfm?I...
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5 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +2
inability to speak the language


Explanation:

To his initial disgust, he spends the day listening to students who, for the most part, are cheerfully aware of their inability to speak the language. ...
www.iol.ie/~galfilm/filmwest/34mercier.htm - 11k - Cached - Similar pages

... despite their inability to speak the language (13000 Ingrian Finns have already migrated to Finland, with another 7000 expecting to follow). ...
www.unpo.org/member_profile.php?id=26 - 13k - Cached - Similar pages

Research - News Centre: Getting to the core of migration
The Fare (Family Reunification Evaluation) project stresses that the inability to speak the language is a major handicap for access to employment but that ...
ec.europa.eu/research/ news-centre/en/soc/03-02-soc01.html - 39k -

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 19 hrs (2007-01-10 13:40:27 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

when one asks:

do you speak english?

it normally implies - do you understand english? can you communicate in english?
'speak' assumes generic meaning of 'communicate'
therefore, i stand by my 'speak'

matryona

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Karen Sughyan
8 hrs
agree  Anastasia Novoselova
14 hrs
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12 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 5/5 peer agreement (net): -1
hardly speak any Georgian...


Explanation:
ethnic minorities(can)hardly speak the local language and get into all sorts of trouble/are marginalized for that

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 day15 hrs (2007-01-11 08:44:34 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

The only nouns we may have left: incompetence/limitations in(both oral and written), lack of/their lacking any/both oral and writing skills, limited/virtually non-existent vocabulary, being their second language/a foreign language to them, poor/negligible/next to none/hardly any language skills, being unfamiliar with/strange to, failure to speak or write/to get a school education in/to have visited a...school. The asker has his work cut out for him

Max Masutin
Ukraine
Local time: 01:02
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish, Native in RussianRussian

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
disagree  Konstantin Kisin: hardly speak any and незнание are very different in meaning
5 hrs
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4 days   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5
caused by having no command of Georgian (language) / by non-acquaintance with Georgian (language)


Explanation:
Поискал варианты к "владению языком", нашел command of a language и "acquaintance with a language" и сделал обратные версии, соответствующие невладению, т.е. незнанию:

caused by having no command of Georgian (language)
caused by non-acquaintance with Georgian (language)


--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 4 days (2007-01-14 08:33:09 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

кстати non-acquaintance также переводится как "незнание", "незнакомство"

Vitali Stanisheuski
Belarus
Local time: 01:02
Works in field
Native speaker of: Native in BelarusianBelarusian
PRO pts in category: 30
Grading comment
Thanks Vitali, I'llbe able to use this somewhere in the text; alas, the noun I needed with this plain meaning was not offered - does not exist. Each other version has a specific and undesirable overtone
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