revenus d'agrément

11:12 Jun 18, 2022 

An "assumption"? Now you're putting thoughts into people's minds. Everybody went off in a different direction apart from me.

In a contract, you can put anything in that's legal (and illegal too, until challenged) and that the parties agree to sign, that's very straightforward. You're being a bit naive there.

You are right that there's been more than enough discussion.

01:34 Jun 18, 2022 

where "... d'agrément" is supposed to mean "additional/ second/ancillary" was the assumption initially everyone took for granted, and went from there to wander to various dead-ends.

You maybe didn't mention "Maison d'agrément" but you are still looking for variants of "additional" (as you said ...additional or supplementary income ...), never mind how much it would make sense in a "Contrat de Mariage Separation de Biens"

One spouse being allowed not to contribute to common costs of marriage simply because it's an unexpected gain and that spouse fancy blowing that money instead of putting in the common kitty? You really see that as a likely clause in such a type of contract?

Anyway, given the limited context available, there isn't much more to be said about this puzzle.

00:43 Jun 18, 2022 

...is not in any of my posts, if I recall correctly. Your insistence on it is a bit bewildering to me, although Mpoma does mention it in passing.

My rationale is about working backwards from "enjoyable" and "pleasure" to a word more in fitting with the context (i.e. finding the right register), which is, I believe, what I have done with my answer.

The text implies that the other income (detailed earlier in the sentence) covers day-to-day stuff, whereas as this is money for having a good time, kind of "bonus" money.

If you wanted to formalise it up even more, you could even call it "ancillary income". But "extra", I now believe, hits the spot.

I've got a feeling that Mpoma will like "ancillary". Income that kind of builds up, and you suddenly say to yourself, "Great, I've made 100k with my shares in TikTok", I'd better treat myself to a Merc.

(Apologies for all the edits, with V1 I clicked on "Preview" and my post disappeared. Also it's late and HOT here.)

22:57 Jun 17, 2022 

that example is a very good one.

For the purpose of elimination - defining what "d'agrément" IS NOT in "maison d'agrément". Important as this misinterpretation was the beginning of a path to a variety of dead-ends.

Good to confirm that "d'agrément" in "maison d'agrément" is about "agrément" = pleasurable (IOW = having "a nice retreat"), as a clear parallel with "Agrément de conduite" = "le plaisir de conduire" (some particular model of car).

Nothing "second" / "additional" nowhere to be seen, "le plaisir de conduire" stands on its own.

But then you get into logical contortions because you still can't quit the idea that in "maison d'agrément" the "d'agrément" part is somehow about "addtional/second" house, while your example just proved that the "d'agrément" part is primarily about "having a home to spend some pleasant time in it" or "avoir une maison d'agrément" = "avoit une maison pour se faire plaisir" (that house being the second or the third or ... not being part of the definition).

This obstination with a wrong clue reminds of how difficult it was for some scientists to let go of the flogiston theory.

16:24 Jun 17, 2022 

Thanks for giving it a think, anyway.

16:12 Jun 17, 2022 

I am lost, but I partially see your reasoning - that "agrément" here means "enjoyment"
I think the jury is out on that one. I couldn't find a single web ref to amalgamate "revenus" with your concept, BUT I found one that referred to some kind of medical agreement
rapport annuel 2 0 1 2 -2 0 1 3 - CQA
https://cqaqualite.ca › media_contents › download
PDF
Revenus d'agrément. 2 822 983 $. 2 044 747 $. Revenus de certification. 659 197. 1 534 112. Revenus certification Milieu Novateur.

15:21 Jun 17, 2022 

I did indeed misread the text in the last reference I posted.

This reference will hopefully clarify my reasoning:

"***l'agrement* de conduite***, c'est le plaisir qu'on ressent a utiliser une caisse. ca se traduit pas en chiffre sur le papier, ca se ressent.7 janv. 2006

Agrément de conduite - Auto / Moto - Discussions - Forum ..."


So, what I'm doing is working backwards from this idea of enjoyment or pleasure to additional or supplementary income, disposable income really, but even above and beyond that, income isn't even budgeted for, money you can blow on a big party or a nice car, at the higher end of things.

I don't think there's any need to over-analyse this question.

15:01 Jun 17, 2022 

I think your proposed meaning of "agrément" (assistante maternelle???) is a tad too obscure here, but I won't rule it our entirely. The problem we have is that "agrément" means an agreement or an arrangement of some kind and in the context of Mpoma's question some form of income/revenue arises from that agreement or arrangement.

Unless the term is bog-standard French, it seems it could be almost anything. What agreement/arrangement? Made by whom?

Pity none of our native Fr crew haven't come aboard. Maybe they will when the weather cools down, assuming Mpoma can wait that long.

12:29 Jun 17, 2022 

3111 avocat compétents *en Agrément de l'assistante maternelle sont disponibles en cabinet pour vous accompagner dans vos démarches juridiques etc
https://duckduckgo.com/?q=Agrément de l'assistante maternell...

If you look closely these are lawyers specialised in helping you to obtain "l'Agrément de l'assistante maternelle" which is in fact a license to work in or run your own kinder garden. IOW to get "the local authorities **to agree** that you can work in that business".

The only thing that is "additional" is that you get a licence that you didn't have at the start of the process.

But that is hardly a ground to interpret "d'agrément" as meaning that whatever is "d'agrément" must somehow be "additional" to something else.

Otherwise - surprise surprise - it's "Agrément" boringly meaning s.o. agreeing to s.t. (local authorities agreeing to you working in a nursery)!

Je persiste et signe:

the whole of

"des revenus d’agrément issus du capital" / "des revenus issus du capital (qualifiés somme étant) d’agrément"

has nothing to do whatsoever with anything "additional" or "de loisir" but with some kind of "agreement"

The answer is somewhere else.

13:57 Jun 16, 2022 

This is my understanding of the term in this context, based on the expression "en agrément de", see the example below:

"Avocats compétents ***en Agrément de*** l'assistante maternelle https://www.juritravail.com › avocat· Translate this page
3111 avocat compétents *en Agrément de* l'assistante maternelle sont disponibles en cabinet pour vous accompagner dans vos démarches juridiques."


A more exaggerated way pf putting this is the way in which people, when they win big on a game show or in Las Vegas, they consider it as spending money.
Some will pay off their mortgages or credit cards, but most people treat themselves -- fun money!

11:55 Jun 16, 2022 

that this "agrément" is defined somewhere in your document?

06:08 Jun 16, 2022 

Thanks for your research, but I don't agree with your conclusions.

The first place to start is TFLi, and under "agrément" there is a whole section devoted to the expression "d'agrément". The central idea is clearly "b) [Avec valeur de compl. de destination] Destiné au plaisir (p. oppos. à ce qui est utile)."

At the moment I'm most inclined towards Adrian's view.

There is nothing whatsoever in the rest of this text which might elucidate this expression more than the quoted excerpt.

05:18 Jun 16, 2022 

in this ST "d'agrément" can only mean something related to

"agrément" = un agrément i.e. something mutually agreed

NOT "agrément" derived from "agréable" as in "Résidence d'agrément" = destinée aux temps de loisir

The remaining mystery is about wich "agreement" this is a reference to.

There MUST BE clues somewhere else in the ST, they wouldn't be using such a condensed form if the expanded meaning wasn't "obvious from what was already said".

Instead of extrapolating from one misinterpred term, ("Résidence d'agrément" in actual fact means "a place for leisure time", ethymology can be as useful as context ...) taking a look at https://www.cnrtl.fr/definition/agrément would be more of interest.

BTW https://www.cnrtl.fr/definition/ is one the best online dictionanry I've ever seen, always worth taking a look.

04:59 Jun 16, 2022 

I would understand

... ainsi que des revenus issus du capital autre que d’agrément.

as a condensed version of

... ainsi que des revenus issus du capital autre que [des revenus] d’agrément [issus du capital].

IOW these are "des revenus issus du capital" that are of the type "d’agrément" i.e.

"des revenus d’agrément issus du capital".

For anyone interested, willing to wade thought the whole prenuptial agreement for clues, there is a grand total of ONE sample to be found on Google search that looks relevant:

https://the.ismaili/sites/default/files/media/modele_contrat...

the pdf is not searchable, it's made of scanned pictures, not text, but there is a "text version" also

https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:MZb-Fv...

My hunch is that "Résidence d'agrément" is a big fat red herring.

The meaning of "agrément" in "Résidence d'agrément" is about "avoir un endroit agréable" (a nice retreat) - that it ALSO happens to be an "additional" property is accessory, so looking for anything "additional" in this ST is *a dead end* (pretty sure of that).

20:20 Jun 15, 2022 

Les Revenus du Capital Autre que d’Agrément

I am submitting to the attention of Proz.com lawyers this hypothesis: 'capirtal autre que d’agrément' means capital acquired with no clause d'agrément.

See below the meaning of the 'clause d'agrément'

https://fiches-droit.com/clause-dagrement

17:07 Jun 15, 2022 

Looks like the term is "revenus d'agrément" and not "capital d'agrément", you're right. A good basic starting-point would be "additional income" or "supplementary income".

16:58 Jun 15, 2022 

Des revenus provenant de gains au jeu ?