Proofreading job - is this a good rate? Thread poster: jmarcos1
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jmarcos1 
Local time: 00:58
Spanish to English
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Hi Guys,
I have been in contact with an agency who is paying £12.50 an hour for proofreading around 3000 words per hour.. this sounds quite odd to me as I think it is a large amount of words to be able to proofread in one hour?
Any thoughts on this?
Thanks
| | | | | Well, I would never accept terms like that... | Jan 16, 2012 |
Welcome to Proz.com!
I am not sure where you found the client, but thank you for raising the question.
The only way to raise rates and keep them at a reasoable level is to discuss them.
You might also like to try the rate calculator here
http://www.proz.com/translator-rates-calculator/
to see what you need to charge per hour if you are seriously... See more Welcome to Proz.com!
I am not sure where you found the client, but thank you for raising the question.
The only way to raise rates and keep them at a reasoable level is to discuss them.
You might also like to try the rate calculator here
http://www.proz.com/translator-rates-calculator/
to see what you need to charge per hour if you are seriously going to make a living.
________________
I can proofread something like 1000 to 1500 words in an hour, maybe more, but I never promise, because it depends on how much actually needs to be checked and corrected, whether I am checking terminology, or whether it is only necessary to touch up the odd typo.
You simply cannot actually look up terminology to check it at that speed, and if you are supposed to compare the translation with the source, it is quite impossible.
Typing in corrections in 'track changes' also takes time, so I think it is completley unrealistic.
Besides, I charge more than twice that rate per hour.
[Edited at 2012-01-16 17:03 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | jmarcos1
Local time: 00:58
Spanish to English
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TOPIC STARTER | That is what I thought.... | Jan 16, 2012 |
I also think it is quite unrealistic and depends on how much has to be cheked, however I have agreed to do a test proofread as I have not been in the industry for long and need as much work as possible.
Obviously, once I receive the test I shall see if this the request is doable. I accepted as the employer said that the documents get translated then checked and then the third stage is proofreading so I imagine that there will not be that much to change/ correct.
Jess... See more I also think it is quite unrealistic and depends on how much has to be cheked, however I have agreed to do a test proofread as I have not been in the industry for long and need as much work as possible.
Obviously, once I receive the test I shall see if this the request is doable. I accepted as the employer said that the documents get translated then checked and then the third stage is proofreading so I imagine that there will not be that much to change/ correct.
Jess
[Edited at 2012-01-16 17:19 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | Sheila Wilson
Spain
Local time: 00:58
Member (2007)
English
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| Big job, small rate | Jan 16, 2012 |
I agree with Christine on every point. If they were to double the rate and halve the expected output, I might be able to do business with this client. However, like Christine I would never say how many wph I can process until I have seen the entire document. It could be a machine translation needing complete reworking!!!
Sheila
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XXXphxxx (X)
United Kingdom
Local time: 00:58
Portuguese to English
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No to 3,000 words an hour. I agree with Christine. Firstly, it should be closer to 1000-1500 words/hour but you can't commit to anything until you've seen the quality of the translation. Secondly, the £ rate is less than half of what it should be. I only ever charge for proofreading by the hour but to give you an idea of what it should cost the rough calculation is 1/3 of your normal translation rate - would you charge £37.50 to translate 3000 words? That works out at £0.01/word for translati... See more No to 3,000 words an hour. I agree with Christine. Firstly, it should be closer to 1000-1500 words/hour but you can't commit to anything until you've seen the quality of the translation. Secondly, the £ rate is less than half of what it should be. I only ever charge for proofreading by the hour but to give you an idea of what it should cost the rough calculation is 1/3 of your normal translation rate - would you charge £37.50 to translate 3000 words? That works out at £0.01/word for translation. Would you charge that? In fact the figure is so ludicrous I wonder if I've got my maths wrong? ▲ Collapse
| | | | | How do they know the amount of hours? | Jan 16, 2012 |
Hello, everybody!
Dear jmarcos1, let me apologize for using your post as an excuse to ask my question, but it is somewhat related to your issue.
For the first time I have been assigned a proofreading job that will be charged per hour... If, for example, the assignement takes me 8 hs, how do I proof this? I mean, I am afraid my client "will not believe that" or will consider the job might have taken less time... do you see my point?
How do you usually do to ... See more Hello, everybody!
Dear jmarcos1, let me apologize for using your post as an excuse to ask my question, but it is somewhat related to your issue.
For the first time I have been assigned a proofreading job that will be charged per hour... If, for example, the assignement takes me 8 hs, how do I proof this? I mean, I am afraid my client "will not believe that" or will consider the job might have taken less time... do you see my point?
How do you usually do to charge per hour? It is easier during an interpretation assignement... time is evident! but here, it is different....
thanks for the help
Romi ▲ Collapse
| | | | Andrzej Lejman
Poland
Local time: 01:58
Member (2004)
German to Polish
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| Hourly rate is not a good solution | Jan 16, 2012 |
I always prefere rates per word. I do not have to discuss than, how much time the proofreading required in fact. It's my problem.
My standard rate for proofreading is 50% of the rate for translation.
Almost all clients accept this.
A.
[Edited at 2012-01-16 18:57 GMT]
| | | | Ahmet Murati
Germany
Local time: 01:58
English to Albanian
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| Proofreading rate | Jan 16, 2012 |
also in my case I give 50 % of rate for translation word based or hourly based.
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Andrzej Lejman wrote:
Hourly rate is not a good solution
For all the reasons given above, it can be impossible to tell beforehand how much time any particular proofreading job will take - sometimes it's still hard to tell even after you have started. Problems can be hidden deep within the text. IMHO, a decent hourly rate is the only equitable solution.
As for the issue of "proving" how much time you take, one method is simply to use "Track Changes" - obviously the more changes made, the longer the work takes. Hopefully you will not be one of those proofreaders who makes changes simply to show that you have done work!
Another option is to provide the client with updates, for example I often send eMails stating
- "the translation is good and I anticipate finishing by xx/in xx hours", or
- "the translation is fairly good but certain terms/style/phrasing are a bit odd, so I will need xx hours/xx % of the time discussed to correct them", or
- "the translation is poorer than originally thought, I have encountered X/Y/Z types of errors rather frequently and I believe I will need the entire time discussed/more time/xx more hours to finish"
Always keep your hourly/daily earnings in mind when setting your rates!
| | | | | Track changes registers time | Jan 17, 2012 |
If you mouse over changes made, you can see who made the change (or whose computer) and the time.
You can also see (under properties of the file) when the file was created and last updated.
Of course for a long job this will not help much, because it does not record when you were not working on the file - taking coffee breaks, answering the phone etc. etc.
If you work on paper first (and some agencies even ask you to do this), then of course that time will ... See more If you mouse over changes made, you can see who made the change (or whose computer) and the time.
You can also see (under properties of the file) when the file was created and last updated.
Of course for a long job this will not help much, because it does not record when you were not working on the file - taking coffee breaks, answering the phone etc. etc.
If you work on paper first (and some agencies even ask you to do this), then of course that time will not be counted either.
Remember to add time for mailing with the client, sending the files and invoicing - it's all part of the job!
When I was working in-house I made a habit of noting start times, stops for breaks and interruptions etc. on a piece of scrap paper, because the company needed the information to invoice the end client. It only takes a few seconds to note '10 56' or whatever the time is.
I have been a little lax at times, but it is well worth reviving the habit - and it is amazing how long both proofing and interruptions can take!
I still find it enormously difficult to estimate in advance how long a proofing job will take, but I quote a maximum price (an hour per thousand words for a new client, lower when I know the particular translator's work is good). Then I promise to stay under that, and reduce the rate when I know the real time taken. Unless I really run into problems, I always knock off a small percentage - or a larger amount where the text is worth it, and the trick works!
One or two agencies offer me a rate per word that amounts to a good level on average, and as they also work with reliable translators, I accept.
All the same, it is important to remember that WE are providing the service, and WE should set the rates, not the client! Naturally, they can find someone else if we charge too much, but keep the discussion going, and ask for realistic rates every time, even if you take lower-paid work because you need to pay the bills.
Take a look at some of the rates here - with the reservations stated at the top.
http://search.proz.com/employers/rates
There may be food for thought if your rates are at the lower end of the scale! ▲ Collapse
| | | | Sheila Wilson
Spain
Local time: 00:58
Member (2007)
English
+ ...
| Where does the time go? | Jan 17, 2012 |
Well, writing this posting has accounted for some of it, of course!
Christine Andersen wrote:
When I was working in-house I made a habit of noting start times, stops for breaks and interruptions etc. on a piece of scrap paper, because the company needed the information to invoice the end client. It only takes a few seconds to note '10 56' or whatever the time is.
I have been a little lax at times, but it is well worth reviving the habit - and it is amazing how long both proofing and interruptions can take!
This is a useful thing to do once in a while, for translating as well as proofreading. It reminds you that you are not going to be spending every second of every day doing income-generating tasks. Your hourly rate (and therefore your word rate) must take all those other jobs into account if you are going to be able to pay the bills at the end of the month.
I still find it enormously difficult to estimate in advance how long a proofing job will take, but I quote a maximum price (an hour per thousand words for a new client, lower when I know the particular translator's work is good). Then I promise to stay under that, and reduce the rate when I know the real time taken. Unless I really run into problems, I always knock off a small percentage - or a larger amount where the text is worth it, and the trick works!
One or two agencies offer me a rate per word that amounts to a good level on average, and as they also work with reliable translators, I accept.
That's exactly the way I work, too, Christine. The client appreciates it when they've accepted 500€ and get a bill for 450€. Makes them think they've got something for nothing and I'm happy too as I've got what I earned.
All the same, it is important to remember that WE are providing the service, and WE should set the rates, not the client!
ABSOLUTELY!!!
Sheila
| | | | jyuan_us
United States
Local time: 19:58
Member (2005)
English to Chinese
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proofreading seems to mean editing.
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jyuan_us
United States
Local time: 19:58
Member (2005)
English to Chinese
+ ...
| it took me 7 hours to review a PDF of 1400 words. | Jan 17, 2012 |
The client asked me to annotate my changes on the PDF and then enter them to the TTX file.
The document had been translated, edited and proofread before it was DTPed, but i still found 20 "critical errors" as a post-PDF reviewer. All of the previous linguists failed to correct a lot of rediculous errors. For example: "you may have irregular bleeding and lower back pain" was translated as "you may have irregular bleeding on your lower back and pain on your lower back".
| | | | Derek Ferrari-Frankland (X)
United Kingdom
German to English
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| time estimates without docs in hand | Jan 17, 2012 |
It is impossible to estimate the time required for revision and proofreading without having the source and target material in hand. What may appear to be a fluent translation in the target text may in fact contain many terminology errors. The project I am currently working on includes hundreds of docs translated by many different people, and the docs vary greatly in accuracy and quality.
I recently revised one doc of 220 pages in 2 days as there was practically nothing to be corrected. Whe... See more It is impossible to estimate the time required for revision and proofreading without having the source and target material in hand. What may appear to be a fluent translation in the target text may in fact contain many terminology errors. The project I am currently working on includes hundreds of docs translated by many different people, and the docs vary greatly in accuracy and quality.
I recently revised one doc of 220 pages in 2 days as there was practically nothing to be corrected. Whereas I am only managing about 15 pages a day with the one I am working on now, despite having cutting edge tools to help me.
Therefore I agree that a decent hourly rate is essential. ▲ Collapse
| | | | Angela Dickson (X)
United Kingdom
Local time: 00:58
French to English
+ ...
jmarcos1 wrote:
I have been in contact with an agency who is paying £12.50 an hour for proofreading around 3000 words per hour.. this sounds quite odd to me as I think it is a large amount of words to be able to proofread in one hour?
There are two problems here:
1. £12.50 an hour. This might seem like a not-too-bad hourly rate for employment (it corresponds to about £22,000 a year, which a recent graduate can probably live on, though it's not a high salary) but for self-employment it is disastrously low. If you are to be a freelancer who can keep going in the business, you need to charge much more than that in order to cover the necessary expenditure you need to make, in equipment, books, training etc, and to cover your living expenses. Remember, too, that if you're running a business you won't be earning your full hourly rate for every hour you work--you'll need to do admin etc, for which you can't charge your clients--so your hourly rate needs to be that much higher.
Note too that I say YOUR hourly rate. You need to set your rates and then tell your clients what those rates are.
2. The client assumes that you can revise/proofread 3000 words an hour. This is a very dangerous assumption - for revision of a good-quality translation I would assume 1000 words an hour, and I would insist on seeing the text first so I could assess the quality before giving a quote.
The over-riding thing to remember is that you are in business and you need to set the terms under which you work. This agency appears to want to tell you a) how much to charge and b) how fast to work, and I wouldn't find that acceptable at all, so I wouldn't want to work with such an agency.
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