Proofreading Thread poster: Wojciech Zakrzewski (X)
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Wojciech Zakrzewski (X) 
Poland
Local time: 21:15
Polish to English
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Dear Colleagues
Every translator signs ones work so why the proofers do not do the same the more so our work and reputation depends on their doubtful opinion based usually by some blah, blah, blah instead of just sending the original file with allegedly corrections done by them. We translators have the rights to know their full name.
With all respect
Blue
Poland
| | | | Robert Forstag
United States
Local time: 15:15
Spanish to English
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Whether the proofreader has merely nitpicked and corrected imaginary mistakes, or has identified and fixed important errors in a truly disastrous text, it would seem fair to expect that he sign his own work.
Yet I think it important (especially in the present case) that one be on solid gound in challenging a proofreader's alleged mistakes. Any protest of this nature that is itself unreadable tends to lend credence to the idea that there were indeed major problems in the text in que... See more Whether the proofreader has merely nitpicked and corrected imaginary mistakes, or has identified and fixed important errors in a truly disastrous text, it would seem fair to expect that he sign his own work.
Yet I think it important (especially in the present case) that one be on solid gound in challenging a proofreader's alleged mistakes. Any protest of this nature that is itself unreadable tends to lend credence to the idea that there were indeed major problems in the text in question.
[Edited at 2011-07-11 12:37 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | Wojciech Zakrzewski (X)
Poland
Local time: 21:15
Polish to English
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TOPIC STARTER | Proofreading | Jul 11, 2011 |
Hi Robert, nice to meet you
I heve never questioned proofreading itslef as we all make mistakes which lies mainly in punctuation and style due to many batches coming from other translators in case of so called "big" projects but translation is not a journalism because I can make over any test keeping its content by changing the word order or putting the other ones having the similar meaning. In fact we translators shouldn't take any responsibility for proofread text unless the proof... See more Hi Robert, nice to meet you
I heve never questioned proofreading itslef as we all make mistakes which lies mainly in punctuation and style due to many batches coming from other translators in case of so called "big" projects but translation is not a journalism because I can make over any test keeping its content by changing the word order or putting the other ones having the similar meaning. In fact we translators shouldn't take any responsibility for proofread text unless the proofreader points out to us in our original text substantional mistaks instead of "your translation is totally unacceptable and so on blah, blah, blah" . Totally unaccteptable is colling the someone's work a crap without pointing out his/her allegedly mistakes.
All the best
Blue ▲ Collapse
| | | | Phil Hand
China
Local time: 03:15
Chinese to English
| Responsibility of the agency | Jul 11, 2011 |
I basically agree with Wojciech and Robert, but I would just sound a note of caution: the more we specify exactly who did what to a text, the more agencies will use it to try to wriggle out of their responsibility.
I had a disagreement - amicably resolved - with an agency recently over a piece of work for proofreading that was not competently translated. The PM at the agency started telling me all about the parental background of the translator. To be fair, I started it, because I q... See more I basically agree with Wojciech and Robert, but I would just sound a note of caution: the more we specify exactly who did what to a text, the more agencies will use it to try to wriggle out of their responsibility.
I had a disagreement - amicably resolved - with an agency recently over a piece of work for proofreading that was not competently translated. The PM at the agency started telling me all about the parental background of the translator. To be fair, I started it, because I questioned whether the translator was a native speaker of English, but I thought it was bizarre that they were trying to tell me all about the translator, when the responsibility was theirs. They must provide me with a text that is proofable; and they must provide the client with a translation that the client can use. That's the risk they take on in return for their fee.
If everything is signed by each person whose hands it passes through, I just know that the agencies will be pushing that responsibility onto us as much as they possibly can. ▲ Collapse
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juvera
Local time: 20:15
English to Hungarian
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Wojciech Zakrzewski wrote:
Every translator signs ones work
The agency knows who the translator is, and they also know, who the "proofreader" (I guess you mean: editor) is.
It is not the custom to disclose the identity of either of them to the other party, and it is up to the agency to deal with disagreements, if any.
When there is no agency involved, the parties either know each other, or it is up to the client to accept or refuse comments, corrections, etc. or disclose the names of the translator and editor.
So blame the agency or the client, not the "proofreader". I prefer not to know the translator's identity, but in my experience they don't "sign" their work, unless it is a literary translation.
| | | | Wojciech Zakrzewski (X)
Poland
Local time: 21:15
Polish to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER | Proofreading | Jul 12, 2011 |
Dear Colleague by trade
I guess the only ones to blame are proofers themselves because the client or translation agency doesn't know the target language that is why the proofer is for. The proofreading is not a journalism which allows making over the given text by changing the word order, putting other ones with the same meaning, beautifying it here and there but picking out my mistakes so if some kid calls my work a crap without pointing pointing out my allegedly terrible mistakes ... See more Dear Colleague by trade
I guess the only ones to blame are proofers themselves because the client or translation agency doesn't know the target language that is why the proofer is for. The proofreading is not a journalism which allows making over the given text by changing the word order, putting other ones with the same meaning, beautifying it here and there but picking out my mistakes so if some kid calls my work a crap without pointing pointing out my allegedly terrible mistakes in my original file I have the righs to know his/her name.
Blue ▲ Collapse
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Blue,
was the problem with Polish to English by any chance?
| | | | Wojciech Zakrzewski (X)
Poland
Local time: 21:15
Polish to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER | Proofreading | Jul 13, 2011 |
Hi Susanna
Here are the proofer's comments on 439 words English-Polish IT sample at which I am damn good (20 years in telecommunication company)
"More Severe Misrepresentation of the source text causing a change in functionality.
Less Severe Misunderstanding of the source text without a change in meaning or functionality.
Accuracy
More Severe Wrong translation of a UI option in help or documentation or in another place in the UI.
... See more Hi Susanna
Here are the proofer's comments on 439 words English-Polish IT sample at which I am damn good (20 years in telecommunication company)
"More Severe Misrepresentation of the source text causing a change in functionality.
Less Severe Misunderstanding of the source text without a change in meaning or functionality.
Accuracy
More Severe Wrong translation of a UI option in help or documentation or in another place in the UI.
Omission of an important piece of information present in the source or unjustified addition of information absent from the source.
Less Severe Untranslated text fragment, segment, sentence, etc. If this is a frequent error, please report to the Project Manager, as it might indicate undetected technical issues.
Less Severe Omission of a piece of information present in the source or unjustified addition of information absent from the source.
Terminology
More Severe "
Terminology inconsistent with reference materials provided for the job. All job-related materials should be considered."
Less Severe General or system platform terminology.
Language
More Severe A mistake in grammar or syntax.
A misspelling, a typo.
Style error making the text difficult to read. Wrong register, too literal translation, archaic or informal language. Unnatural word order, especially copied from the source text.
Less Severe Style error making the text slightly more difficult to read. Wrong register, too literal translation, archaic or informal language. Unnatural word order, especially copied from the source text.
Wrong punctuation (including spaces, dashes, and other punctuation marks.) Wrong punctuation of lists, picture captions, etc.
Guidelines
More Severe Inconsistency with styleguide or other non-terminological guidelines for the job.
Less Severe Inconsistency with Styleguide or other low-priority non-terminological guidelines.
Country Standards
The text should conform to local standards and include localized examples. addresses, date and time formats, index formats, etc. (if not specified otherwise in the job guidelines.)
Consistency
More Severe "Consistency of terms and references:
• The same term translated in different ways in similar contexts.
• Translation of a reference is inconsistent with the target of the reference, e.g. different chapter titles, figure captions, page numbers, etc."
Less Severe Phrase consistency: the same or similar construction in the source text translated in several different ways. Such errors are particularly severe in parts of text that might be included in indexes, tables of contents, tables of figures, and table headings, etc. Obviously, if a text should be stylistically diversified, not all such inconsistencies are errors.
Technical Error
More Severe Tag error that could corrupt the document, or cause formatting or compilation errors. Format or layout errors changing the functionality of the text and requiring technical corrections.
Less Severe Small error in tags or formatting not causing technical problems".
With all respect, am I some African with Polish knowledge on the level: Kali be strong? ▲ Collapse
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omero
United Kingdom
Local time: 21:15
Italian to English
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| scared of post-editing | Jul 13, 2011 |
HI Blue
A nightmare evaluation!
has the proofreader submitted his own version of the "perfect" text? would be interesting to read that, or some of it anyway.
I sent off a test intended to get some post-editing work and I am already being told off by the Agency for "translating" the MT version here and there .. OUCH! I have asked for the rates to see whether the hassle is worth.
I am not too bothered to know who does the proofreading - so long... See more HI Blue
A nightmare evaluation!
has the proofreader submitted his own version of the "perfect" text? would be interesting to read that, or some of it anyway.
I sent off a test intended to get some post-editing work and I am already being told off by the Agency for "translating" the MT version here and there .. OUCH! I have asked for the rates to see whether the hassle is worth.
I am not too bothered to know who does the proofreading - so long as I have no serious issues with it. Sounds as if you have got more than you bargained for, so on an ethical level, I think in this situation you re quite right in asking for the name.
cheers ! ▲ Collapse
| | | | Wojciech Zakrzewski (X)
Poland
Local time: 21:15
Polish to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER | Proofreading | Jul 13, 2011 |
Do not get me wrong dear colleagues by trade (translators, proofreaders, editirs) I am not playing a supertranslator and of course do mistakes like everybody else and that is why the proofreaders are for but business especially the one via internet requires honesty and fair play and if someone calls my job a crap the more so by sending me some blah, blah, blah instead of my original text with his/her corrections I have the rights to know the full name of the proofreader. Dear All, I used to be y... See more Do not get me wrong dear colleagues by trade (translators, proofreaders, editirs) I am not playing a supertranslator and of course do mistakes like everybody else and that is why the proofreaders are for but business especially the one via internet requires honesty and fair play and if someone calls my job a crap the more so by sending me some blah, blah, blah instead of my original text with his/her corrections I have the rights to know the full name of the proofreader. Dear All, I used to be young myself and it was a beautiful period of my life but recently has grown so many agencies which are the ones by name only, having no experience and means that is the appropriate software and to make things worse requiring from a translator to edit in programmes of which I hear the first time (CAD ones mostly) that are usually not designed for editing the text at all (pasting, converting, formatting). I wonder sometims when they will demand from me a jumbo jet driving licence to do my job, I guess it's just a matter of time. Anyway dear translation community, I do not care what the proofreader will do with my text because he/she can make it over countless of times in more official or even humorous way unless he/she points out my serious mistakes. All I know is that my translation is good bacause I do not take a job of which I have not enough knowledge. In fact dear colleagues by trade what I am concerned most as a translator is the content of the given text, not its form which is the problem for those who call themselves agencies or companies, having enough means (which are very expensive software mostly) and army of people to do it. I am just a single translator, not a programmer having all basic software to do my job as best as I can.
All the best
Blue ▲ Collapse
| | | | | Now, now ... | Jul 13, 2011 |
Susanna Garcia wrote:
Blue,
was the problem with Polish to English by any chance?
Whatever gave you that idea?
| | | | | Proofreading | Jul 14, 2011 |
Wojciech Zakrzewski wrote:
With all respect, am I some African with Polish knowledge on the level: Kali be strong?
Well, I'm glad we cleared that one up!
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juvera
Local time: 20:15
English to Hungarian
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| Proofreader's comments | Jul 14, 2011 |
Dear Blue,
Correct me if I am mistaken, but I am not sure that all of the text you posted here came from the proofreader as comments. It seems that it also contains the instructions to the proofreader and quite frankly, in the form presented here, I am unable to distinguish the instructions from the comments.
| | | | Wojciech Zakrzewski (X)
Poland
Local time: 21:15
Polish to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER | Proofreading | Jul 14, 2011 |
...me too, it looks like that pitch was just pasted to get rid of me, never mind they are scammers.
Blue
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