| Pages in topic: < [1 2] | Proofreading Thread poster: Wojciech Zakrzewski (X)
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Oliver Walter 
United Kingdom
Local time: 10:39
German to English
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| Learn from proofreading | Apr 2, 2010 |
Michaela Müller wrote:
The translator should always learn something from the corrections, so the same mistakes won't happen again.
That is so true that I have once or twice written to the outsourcer "If this translation is reviewed, I would like to see the reviewer's comments, so that I can learn from them."
I don't remember the actual cases but in general I think the translator can decide which comments are valuable and which are a waste of time.
I have also had a case where the reviewer introduced an error of terminology because of unfamiliarity with the technical jargon that was necessary in the context. I informed the oursourcer that the reviewer's "correction" had to be "uncorrected".
And of course one must proofread one"s own work, preferably about a day after completing it. I nearly always find errors this way although I was careful when writing the translation.
Oliver
| | | | Wojciech Zakrzewski (X)
Poland
Local time: 11:39
Polish to English
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TOPIC STARTER
You seem to not understand what I was talking about Natalia, it's not about courage or my ego but simply fair play. Gimme some of your text Natalia and I can make it over and over by chenging the word order or icing it here and there without affecting its conetnt. Got it!
Blue
| | | | | let's learn from proofreading | Apr 2, 2010 |
Wojciech Zakrzewski wrote:
Gimme some of your text Natalia and I can make it over and over by chenging the word order or icing it here and there without affecting its conetnt. Got it!
Blue
But that’s the whole point, isn’t it? Correct it until it becomes flawless or next to flawless.
I agree with Oliver and Michaela.
I value a good proofreader, because sometimes it is difficult to find our own mistakes, even if we read our translation over and over again.
Or maybe I was just lucky with my proofreaders. But anyway, I’m trying to learn from their corrections.
Regards, Ewa
| | | | Wojciech Zakrzewski (X)
Poland
Local time: 11:39
Polish to English
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TOPIC STARTER
Look Ewa, I am not saying that proofrading is not nrcessary. I do mistakes like evrybody else but as we sign any translation with our own name we should have the rights to know the name of the proofreader especially if he/she calls my job a crap. How do you call this:
My translation: Ta funkcja zostanie całkowicie odinstalowana, ale istnieje możliwość jej uruchomienia z sieci.
his/her: Ta funkcja zostanie całkowicie odinstalowana i nie będzie można jej uruchomić z siec... See more Look Ewa, I am not saying that proofrading is not nrcessary. I do mistakes like evrybody else but as we sign any translation with our own name we should have the rights to know the name of the proofreader especially if he/she calls my job a crap. How do you call this:
My translation: Ta funkcja zostanie całkowicie odinstalowana, ale istnieje możliwość jej uruchomienia z sieci.
his/her: Ta funkcja zostanie całkowicie odinstalowana i nie będzie można jej uruchomić z sieci
Mine: Ta funkcja może być uruchamiania z płyty CD lub być przygotowana do instalacji w razie konieczności
His/her: Ta funkcja zmieni się z funkcji uruchamianej z płyty CD w funkcję przygotowaną do instalacji w razie potrzeby
Mine: Szacowanie miejsca niezbędne dla tej funkcji…
his/her: Rozważanie opłacalności funkcji…
Do you want more???
Blue ▲ Collapse
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Sheila Wilson
Spain
Local time: 10:39
Member (2007)
English
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| Why the name? | Apr 3, 2010 |
Wojciech Zakrzewski wrote:
Look Ewa, I am not saying that proofrading is not nrcessary. I do mistakes like evrybody else but as we sign any translation with our own name we should have the rights to know the name of the proofreader especially if he/she calls my job a crap.
But why the insistence on having the name of the proofreader? If you have valid reasons for objecting to this person's work (and I can't comment as I don't know Polish), then you should take it up with the agency. If the agency wishes, they then can facilitate direct communication between the two of you.
I think most of us would say that direct communication between translator and proofreader can be rewarding for both, but not if the translator just wants to be abusive.
| | | | RobinB
United States
Local time: 04:39
German to English
Before this thread spirals entirely out of control, here are a few facts:
1) There is no translator whose work does not benefit from competent revision.
2) Equally, there is no good translator who does not welcome - and learn from - competent revision of their work.
3) There are no EU regulations or other legislative acts whatsoever governing translation or the terms of translation contracts. The only European document addressing translation is from CEN (which is *not* t... See more Before this thread spirals entirely out of control, here are a few facts:
1) There is no translator whose work does not benefit from competent revision.
2) Equally, there is no good translator who does not welcome - and learn from - competent revision of their work.
3) There are no EU regulations or other legislative acts whatsoever governing translation or the terms of translation contracts. The only European document addressing translation is from CEN (which is *not* the EU!): EN 15038, which sets out standards for translation process quality and includes a requirement for translations to be revised.
This doesn't mean that all revision is competent. Actually, I'm convinced by the empirical evidence that much revision is pretty incompetent. But this is solely a matter for the translator and that translator's principal (direct client or agency) - there are no overarching rules or regulations that can be appealed to here. Equally, the issue of who pays for revision is a matter of private contract, and nobody can answer any questions here without seeing the terms of the contract.
Personally, I'm all in favour of "light touch" revision (I revise upwards of a million words a year), but sometimes you just have to rewrite a translation pretty ruthlessly (I'm not talking about beginners here, whose work will necessarily require substantial revision in many cases). Sometimes, translators don't like their work being radically rewritten, but if they don't accept it, they'll never learn and improve.
Of course, the dynamics at the high end of the market are very different in any case, and translator and reviser will often know each other personally and will be in contact before, during and after the revision process. I doubt that this happens in the mass market, but surely nobody's going to waste their time discussing revision for the mass market... ▲ Collapse
| | | | Wojciech Zakrzewski (X)
Poland
Local time: 11:39
Polish to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Dear colleagues by trade
Nobody denies that the proofreading is necessary in this business the more so usually in case of so called big projects, the translation to be done is divided into couple of batches and then requiring a good match which is the task for proofreaders hired by translation agencies becuase every translator has its own style and this fact is often misused by aganicies I think. I started this topic not becuse I feel offended if some competent translator points it ... See more Dear colleagues by trade
Nobody denies that the proofreading is necessary in this business the more so usually in case of so called big projects, the translation to be done is divided into couple of batches and then requiring a good match which is the task for proofreaders hired by translation agencies becuase every translator has its own style and this fact is often misused by aganicies I think. I started this topic not becuse I feel offended if some competent translator points it out to me, it's about fair play...
Blue ▲ Collapse
| | | | Lingua 5B
Bosnia and Herzegovina
Local time: 11:39
Member (2009)
English to Croatian
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Wojciech Zakrzewski wrote:
Dear colleagues by trade
Nobody denies that the proofreading is necessary in this business the more so usually in case of so called big projects, the translation to be done is divided into couple of batches and then requiring a good match which is the task for proofreaders hired by translation agencies becuase every translator has its own style and this fact is often misused by aganicies I think.
Look at this long sentence.
Five lines without a full-stop, that's some style. ... You also appear not to like commas at all.
No hard feelings, only an observation/commentary.
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Laurent KRAULAND (X)
France
Local time: 11:39
French to German
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| Thanks a bunch, Robin... | Apr 3, 2010 |
exactly my thoughts.
The sad (and weak) point in many translator / agency / proofreader business relationships is that people tend to act as if they merely were going to some weekend pleasure trip, i. e. they leave the potentially "unpleasant" aspects out of the equation and "hope for the best".
Who is to be blamed when something goes wrong and nobody wants to be accountable for it?
[Edited at 2010-04-03 11:38 GMT]
| | | | Wojciech Zakrzewski (X)
Poland
Local time: 11:39
Polish to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Look Guys
I am just tired of this discussion so let me put straight:
Translatins agency asigns you the first batch of files to be done and everything is fine by now, then in more than a week's time they send you a second one and when the project is over you get an "official message" that some independent misterius translators said your hard work was a crap. Do you believe you guys that nobody even looked at the first batch during the whole week the more so it was the fi... See more Look Guys
I am just tired of this discussion so let me put straight:
Translatins agency asigns you the first batch of files to be done and everything is fine by now, then in more than a week's time they send you a second one and when the project is over you get an "official message" that some independent misterius translators said your hard work was a crap. Do you believe you guys that nobody even looked at the first batch during the whole week the more so it was the first contact with'em??? I don't buy it...
Blue ▲ Collapse
| | | | | It is impossible to say what happened in an individual case. | Apr 4, 2010 |
Hi Wojciech
It is very possible that in your individual case there was a problem. You cannot post the whole job with comments in the forum without breaching confidentiality.
Even if you could, most of us do not have the time, and we do not read Polish well enough to be able to judge, and what could we do about it anyway?
This sort of thing happens once in a while, and it is bitterly annoying when you have really worked hard at a job, only to have it torn ap... See more Hi Wojciech
It is very possible that in your individual case there was a problem. You cannot post the whole job with comments in the forum without breaching confidentiality.
Even if you could, most of us do not have the time, and we do not read Polish well enough to be able to judge, and what could we do about it anyway?
This sort of thing happens once in a while, and it is bitterly annoying when you have really worked hard at a job, only to have it torn apart by a proofreader. Most of us have been in the same situation at one time or another, and you have my sympathy.
But as mentioned above, there are only two possibilities: either you must go through at least a section of the translation, commenting on each correction and explaining why it was unjustified and your version was better, and send it to the agency, or else you must accept the corrections (however unwillingly) and move on. You can surely spend your energy on something more enjoyable and productive. 
I hope you find clients who appreciate your work better!
You have said that you are tired of the discussion, and I don´t think there is much more that can usefully be added in this case.
I am therefore locking this thread.
Enjoy the rest of the weekend, everyone! ▲ Collapse
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