| Pages in topic: < [1 2] | rates Thread poster: Silvia Lee
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williamson (X)
Local time: 14:54
Dutch to English
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\"quoted by the so caled high profile translators\".
At institutes for translators and interpreters, they teach you that \"so caled\" has to be \"so-called\"
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I\'ve been reading a lot these days in the forums about this subject, and I have only one thing to say:
PLEASE, STOP COMPARING RATES WITH QUALITY!
Most of you are amazed about colleagues bidding 0.04 and 0.05 a word, comfortably sitting in your first world countries.
For once, please, put yourself in the shoes of your colleagues working in underdeveloped countries, with high unemployment rates, misery salaries, where you can get into a cab and... See more I\'ve been reading a lot these days in the forums about this subject, and I have only one thing to say:
PLEASE, STOP COMPARING RATES WITH QUALITY!
Most of you are amazed about colleagues bidding 0.04 and 0.05 a word, comfortably sitting in your first world countries.
For once, please, put yourself in the shoes of your colleagues working in underdeveloped countries, with high unemployment rates, misery salaries, where you can get into a cab and find engineers, architects, lawyers, phsycians and whatever professional degrees you may think of, working as taxi drivers because either they have no work in their profession or they are so underpaid that they earn more driving a cab.
We can deliver a top quality translation and feel happy if we get ongoing work at those rates you are ashamed of, because this gives us the opportunity to feed our kids.
In a country, where standard rates are 0.015 to 0.02 (except for sworn translators who are regulated), getting a translation for 0.05 means cheering with champagne.
So please, either talk about rates keeping in mind what I have said, or talk about quality, but separately from rates.
That was it. Didn\'t mean to be aggresive, but only to open many eyes.
Cheers! 
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| | | | | Werner is right, right and right again | Dec 4, 2001 |
Now, Mattias, what\'s wrong with qualifications and being educated? And why are all these translators afraid of stricter regulations? I\'ll tell you why... because they are not qualified and are just improvised translators and imposters. Doing a job without the proper qualifications is degrading for the profession, degrading for oneself and degrading for society. Let\'s just forget about degrees and education. Let\'s go back to the caves and eat dinosaur\'s meat. Let\'s go to football matches an... See more Now, Mattias, what\'s wrong with qualifications and being educated? And why are all these translators afraid of stricter regulations? I\'ll tell you why... because they are not qualified and are just improvised translators and imposters. Doing a job without the proper qualifications is degrading for the profession, degrading for oneself and degrading for society. Let\'s just forget about degrees and education. Let\'s go back to the caves and eat dinosaur\'s meat. Let\'s go to football matches and behave like cavemen. Let\'s forget about a well organized and civilized society. Let\'s forget about culture. It\'s a real shame to hear such narrowminded remarks when people are trying to debate a way of improving our profession.
Anyway, Mattias... how much do you charge in Sweden, the country with the highest rates in the world? And why do you belong to FAT?
Giovanni ▲ Collapse
| | | | Ralf Lemster 
Germany
Local time: 14:54
English to German
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| *improvised translators and imposters* | Dec 4, 2001 |
Giovanni,
Nothing\'s wrong with qualifications and being educated. But in all likelihood, the absence of compulsory regulations for translators is not going to threaten civilisation.
Yes, I am a member of BDÜ, one of the German professional bodies. Do they do something for my business? Hardly. Do I want them to? Not really, to be honest.
Yes, I have passed the state exam in Germany and yes, I am a sworn translator. But I did not study languag... See more Giovanni,
Nothing\'s wrong with qualifications and being educated. But in all likelihood, the absence of compulsory regulations for translators is not going to threaten civilisation.
Yes, I am a member of BDÜ, one of the German professional bodies. Do they do something for my business? Hardly. Do I want them to? Not really, to be honest.
Yes, I have passed the state exam in Germany and yes, I am a sworn translator. But I did not study languages, but entered translations by way of \"improvisation\", as you might put it. It\'s just that I did so on the basis of a decade of experience in investment banking - I have seen too many \"imposters\" with a degree and diploma who tried to tackle complex financial material, with disastrous results, to still believe in the magic of degrees.
What I\'m saying is this: nobody objects to proper training and examination structures for translators, if only to preserve a professional image. But to try and regulate this market (and this is where I beg to differ with you as well as with Werner, running the risk of being called \"narrow-minded\" or whatever) is but a futile attempt to preserve outdated structures in a borderless economy.
PS To prevent any conspiracy theories: I edited this message myself... 
[ This Message was edited by: on 2001-12-04 05:37 ]
[ This Message was edited by: on 2001-12-04 05:40 ] ▲ Collapse
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Werner George Patels, M.A., C.Tran.(ATIO) (X)
Local time: 08:54
German to English
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| Mattias charges 10 cents | Dec 4, 2001 |
Mattias charges 10 cents, Giovanni, but he calls on everyone else to work for 4 cents. Go figure! (But then again, he had his own website translated for FREE.).
Don\'t forget guys: he is operating an agency, so, naturally, he is trying to convince you to accept 4 cents.
Ralf: education, qualifications and standards are important. Or do you also support unlicensed stockbrokers who do not have to follow any professional rules????? This would be the same t... See more Mattias charges 10 cents, Giovanni, but he calls on everyone else to work for 4 cents. Go figure! (But then again, he had his own website translated for FREE.).
Don\'t forget guys: he is operating an agency, so, naturally, he is trying to convince you to accept 4 cents.
Ralf: education, qualifications and standards are important. Or do you also support unlicensed stockbrokers who do not have to follow any professional rules????? This would be the same thing! Please use some common sense! (We are waiting ... )
Elinor: we are not comparing rates and quality at this point. We are saying that professional translators must be bound by some code of professional standards and ethics - unfortunately, there are several people out there who are not interested in professional ethics (and it shows).
Every profession has standards and rules: anyone who does not like such standards of quality and professional ethics should say so right now and declare himself/herself. But remember: your potential clients will be reading your \"confession\" too, and they won\'t respect you too much if you reject education, quality, ethics and professional standards. ▲ Collapse
| | | | mckinnc
Local time: 14:54
French to English
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| Lord save us from arrogant and opinionated translators | Dec 4, 2001 |
It is clear from these diccussions on rates that there is very little sympathy and understanding on the part of citizens of rich nations for colleagues on the other side of the world, also working hard to make a living. How an earth can you imagine that one can demand the rates you are suggesting when working in India, Albania, Peru, Sudan etc?
Silvia\'s comment on technical writing makes me laugh. I am a full-time technical writer for a large US corporation and spend my eve... See more It is clear from these diccussions on rates that there is very little sympathy and understanding on the part of citizens of rich nations for colleagues on the other side of the world, also working hard to make a living. How an earth can you imagine that one can demand the rates you are suggesting when working in India, Albania, Peru, Sudan etc?
Silvia\'s comment on technical writing makes me laugh. I am a full-time technical writer for a large US corporation and spend my evenings and weekends working as a translator. I certainly can\'t vouch for the text I have written once the translators get hold of it. My careful warnings probably are turned into exhortations to stick your computer in the bath before changing memory modules. You should see some of the crap they come out with! One thing\'s for sure - there are an awful lot of charlatans out there.
If everyone here is as professional as they are so keen to point out, why are so many Proz clearly doing translations into English when every second statement they make on this site clearly demonstrates their unsuitability to do so? It\'s one thing to propose answers to Kudoz questions - it\'s quite another to be translating into a foreign tongue when you have very little grasp of common idioms.
Maybe some of the people doing this are also harping on about plunging rates and how you canonly be any good if you have some translating diploma?
(Just taking time out from a very long translation to vent my frustration at all the pompous statements that get made around here).
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| | | | | Ah, you see... | Dec 4, 2001 |
Colin, you said:
\"If everyone here is as professional as they are so keen to point out, why are so many Proz clearly doing translations into English when every second statement they make on this site clearly demonstrates their unsuitability to do so? It\'s one thing to propose answers to Kudoz questions - it\'s quite another to be translating into a foreign tongue when you have very little grasp of common idioms\".
This is exactly why we need the profes... See more Colin, you said:
\"If everyone here is as professional as they are so keen to point out, why are so many Proz clearly doing translations into English when every second statement they make on this site clearly demonstrates their unsuitability to do so? It\'s one thing to propose answers to Kudoz questions - it\'s quite another to be translating into a foreign tongue when you have very little grasp of common idioms\".
This is exactly why we need the profession to be regulated. Back to my computer in the bath, now.
Giovanni
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| | | | Mimi7
Local time: 06:54
English to French
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| agree, but... | Dec 4, 2001 |
Silvia,
I do agree with you on one hand since I have also seen some pretty poor translations come through. The exception for me in charging rates is a personal one: from time to time I get requests from a non-profit agencies which I feel truly have a humanitarian cause and know that they don\'t always have the means financially. Therefore, I am sometimes willing to lower my fees considerably for them. Charging lower fees does not always mean a poor job. -Lynelle
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mckinnc
Local time: 14:54
French to English
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| Giovanni, on what basis would you regulate? | Dec 4, 2001 |
Giovanni,
I wish my compter did work in the bath...I\'m sure Apple are working on such a thing as we speak!
Regulation maybe - as long as it\'s the right kind of regulation. In France for example, they\'re really hung up on qualifications, to the extent that it restricts professional mobility and often leads to the least qualified people hogging the plum jobs (just tale a look at some of the old farts working in French universities). Translation is one o... See more Giovanni,
I wish my compter did work in the bath...I\'m sure Apple are working on such a thing as we speak!
Regulation maybe - as long as it\'s the right kind of regulation. In France for example, they\'re really hung up on qualifications, to the extent that it restricts professional mobility and often leads to the least qualified people hogging the plum jobs (just tale a look at some of the old farts working in French universities). Translation is one of those professions where it is highly desirable to have picked up other interesting experience along the way (such as a stint in business).
I personally have been in various professions including language teaching, technical writing and translating. I don\'t have time to go back to college, having spent a total of 8 years there already. Neither do I really have the inclination because I feel confident that I can do a good job. ▲ Collapse
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In one of my posts elsewhere, I was talking about a 3 year degree course in translation, followed by another 3/5 year specialization period, so you can learn the ropes, at the end of which you take an exam. If you pass it, you can call yourself \"translator\" and can practice. If you fail, you can sit it again. I believe that with this kind of structure all our problems would be solved. But then it would be too easy.... Back to my Apple Mac in the bath (you see, you are a bit behind there in Fra... See more In one of my posts elsewhere, I was talking about a 3 year degree course in translation, followed by another 3/5 year specialization period, so you can learn the ropes, at the end of which you take an exam. If you pass it, you can call yourself \"translator\" and can practice. If you fail, you can sit it again. I believe that with this kind of structure all our problems would be solved. But then it would be too easy.... Back to my Apple Mac in the bath (you see, you are a bit behind there in France, Colin, I\'m already using one .
Giovanni ▲ Collapse
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