| Pages in topic: < [1 2 3] > | Answerers could do so much more to improve the quality of KudoZ Thread poster: moken
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| Building a healthy community | Oct 10, 2008 |
Álvaro Blanch wrote:
Of course, the rule regarding multiple term questions was quickly brought to the attention of the asker.
However, everybody seemed to respect the answerer's 'freedom' to answer.
In my opinion, this type of answer only encourages site abuse and needs looking into, but (in my pairs) it seems to me that just as we are ready to admonish askers, we are equally reluctant to request answerers to stop encouraging these behaviours.
The example provided is just one among a list of bad answering habits (which in turn are also encouraged by poor peer agreement habits) that encourage poorly-asked questions.
Stéphanie Soudais wrote:
When this happens in my pair, I usually put a "neutral" to all answerers and tell them that answering questions that do not respect KudoZ rules does not encourage the asker to reformulate his/her question. Don't really know if this is useful or not...
Stéphanie
Tomás Cano Binder wrote:
I don't really think there is a need to change Kudoz at this stage: let's simply ignore bad askers. That way we will improve Kudoz... a lot!
Yes, bravo Álvaro and Stéphanie, I agree with you. This thread is intended to rally the troops; it is a call for solidarity among responsible KudoZ participants and a plea to less responsible participants to get on the bandwagon. But under the current rules, the only option we have is Tomás' proposal: ignore the bad askers, push the problem under the carpet.
Álvaro, you'd like more of us to let our colleagues know how we feel about answering questions that are not in compliance with the rules or guidelines for asking questions. This is a worthy cause, and unfortunately only permissible in these forums, which most abusers don't read in the first place. Under the rules as currently written, (and draconically enforced in some language pairs) we are prohibited from commenting on an answerer's decision to answer questions that violate the rules. Our comments must be purely linguistic.
Before too long, I expect staff (the powers that be) to remind us of rule 3.7
Commentary on askers or answerers, and their postings or decisions to post, is not allowed. Comments or insinuations concerning an answerer's or asker's experience or profile, his/her decision to post a certain question or answer, grade or close a question in a certain way, make a certain glossary entry, etc., are strictly prohibited (whether posted publicly, made directly to the person in question, or made to another site user).
In the good old days (before the crack-down) members of the language pairs I participate in (German/English) were enthusiastic about building a community of responsible participants. Solidarity was a key word. When someone answered a question that already had a glossary entry, a question that was impossible to answer properly because context was lacking, a question that should have been squashed, a question that no pro translator would need to ask in the first place, etc. peers would typically give the answerer a thumbs down, reminding him of "community rules."
The posts submitted by Álvaro and many others have precisely this in mind: building a healthy community. We can say how we feel in the forums (to some extent) but not on the KudoZ pages where the damage is done.
[Edited at 2008-10-10 13:46]
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Ligia Dias Costa wrote:
A question WITH answers can be removed. In this case, only by a Moderator.
So far, each time I contacted a moderator regarding for instance too long questions or duplicates, I was answered : sorry but this question has received answers and nothing can be done.
Now, I even refrain from contacting moderators regarding this matter because usually it takes time for them to answer and in the meantime, the "bad" question has received answers....
Stéphanie
| | | | moken 
Local time: 22:41
English to Spanish
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TOPIC STARTER | Thank you Kim | Oct 10, 2008 |
I can't single out a line of yours to quote, because every single one is spot on. I (obviously) couldn't have said it better.
Stéphanie - I've been told exactly the same by moderators in my pair. Coincidence? I wonder.
| | | | | Never (or rarely) had that problem | Oct 10, 2008 |
Kim Metzger wrote:
Álvaro, you'd like more of us to let our colleagues know how we feel about answering questions that are not in compliance with the rules or guidelines for asking questions. This is a worthy cause, and unfortunately only permissible in these forums, which most abusers don't read in the first place. Under the rules as currently written, (and draconically enforced in some language pairs) we are prohibited from commenting on an answerer's decision to answer questions that violate the rules. Our comments must be purely linguistic.
Not my experience in my main language pair, where I am usually the one who complains for bad questions and asks for more information. How is it possible that many people complain about a bad attitude but don't ask askers (and answerers) for more information? Maybe 3-4 people do that in my language pair. All the rest keep silent.
Hey guys!!!! Let's let askers and answerers know about poor quality in questions and answers!!
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| I quite do not understand | Oct 10, 2008 |
[quote]Laurence Forain wrote:
"...I am not mentionning Luisa who confesses that she accepts projects and sees that it is hard in the end. ..."
Laurence, I am having a hard time understanding this sentence. Your sentence reads as if you were saying that I accept projects for which I do not meet the qualifications. Or is this a rhetorical question, and you forgot to add the commas and the question mark?
Just to set the record straight: I do not accept work outside my fields of expertise, and I have never found myself in the position of these Kudoz askers who obviously do.
| | | | | Member of the club | Oct 10, 2008 |
[quote]Tomás Cano Binder wrote:
"How is it possible that many people complain about a bad attitude but don't ask askers (and answerers) for more information? Maybe 3-4 people do that in my language pair. All the rest keep silent."
You know I am one of those few. It just does not make any sense rushing a suggestion when the initial question leaves a lot unsaid, or when the answer is either something so well known and easy, or so obvious that the most basic of dictionaries would provide it.
| | | | Patricia Rosas
United States
Local time: 14:41
Spanish to English
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In memoriam
Jack Doughty wrote:
I hope you don't think I'm being too pedantic, but the state should encourage wreckless driving and discourage reckless driving.
Interesting discussion, but to Jack: You made my day! RLOL ...
Patricia
| | | | Laurence Forain
France
Local time: 23:41
Member (2007)
English to French
+ ...
I am so sorry, my point was not to offend you, all the contrary. My non-native English went out wrong apparently...
I did not want you to think that I consider you part of those who accept jobs outside their fields of competence. Because even if you confessed in your message that sometimes you regret having accepted a project because you find some difficulties in it (it sometimes happens to me, in the first place), I have never thought that you've ever taken a job you won't be qualified fo... See more I am so sorry, my point was not to offend you, all the contrary. My non-native English went out wrong apparently...
I did not want you to think that I consider you part of those who accept jobs outside their fields of competence. Because even if you confessed in your message that sometimes you regret having accepted a project because you find some difficulties in it (it sometimes happens to me, in the first place), I have never thought that you've ever taken a job you won't be qualified for.
So that is why I said that I was not mentionning you.
I hope it is clear now. So, sorry again if my words seemed rude to you. That was not the purpose of my message.
All, have a nice evening/night. ▲ Collapse
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Cetacea
Switzerland
Local time: 23:41
English to German
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| My feelings exactly! | Oct 10, 2008 |
Kim Metzger wrote:
In the good old days (before the crack-down) members of the language pairs I participate in (German/English) were enthusiastic about building a community of responsible participants. Solidarity was a key word. When someone answered a question that already had a glossary entry, a question that was impossible to answer properly because context was lacking, a question that should have been squashed, a question that no pro translator would need to ask in the first place, etc. peers would typically give the answerer a thumbs down, reminding him of "community rules."
The posts submitted by Álvaro and many others have precisely this in mind: building a healthy community. We can say how we feel in the forums (to some extent) but not on the KudoZ pages where the damage is done.
Thank you, Kim. It's good to know that an esteemed colleague feels the same way.
| | | | tazdog (X)
Spain
Local time: 23:41
Spanish to English
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Laurence Forain wrote:
Because even if you confessed in your message that sometimes you regret having accepted a project because you find some difficulties in it (it sometimes happens to me, in the first place), I have never thought that you've ever taken a job you won't be qualified for.
I am completely mystified here. Luisa never said any such thing. ?????
| | | | Laurence Forain
France
Local time: 23:41
Member (2007)
English to French
+ ...
| Ok I understand your ???? | Oct 10, 2008 |
Cindy, I guess I have been misleaded when reading "On each occassion, I think to myself: why in heavens did you take this job when, obviously, you know nothing about it? "
I understood that she was thinking that about herself (why did I take this job...) and not that she was "speaking" to the person who took a job he/she is not qualified for.
And sometimes I do think to myself "o Lord, it is harder than what I expected, it may take me more effort, concentration and time to achieve t... See more Cindy, I guess I have been misleaded when reading "On each occassion, I think to myself: why in heavens did you take this job when, obviously, you know nothing about it? "
I understood that she was thinking that about herself (why did I take this job...) and not that she was "speaking" to the person who took a job he/she is not qualified for.
And sometimes I do think to myself "o Lord, it is harder than what I expected, it may take me more effort, concentration and time to achieve the project". But I always do and rare are negative comments from my clients. I prefer "loosing" a job than translating a document I am not confortable with.
I hope THAT time it is clear for everybody. I may not intervene on English topics anymore if I am such a bad English writer! ▲ Collapse
| | | | Lia Fail (X)
Spain
Local time: 23:41
Spanish to English
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| Eliminate points | Oct 10, 2008 |
Álvaro Blanch wrote:
I think it's time to shift focus.
I would like to see that points were not awarded.
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| No problem, Laurence | Oct 10, 2008 |
I see your point. My expression was not clear either. I meant "on each occasion that I find someone asking in Kudoz under the circumstances described, I ask myself...". But I did not say it like that so it was only natural for someone to interpret that I was talking about myself. I apologize.
On the other hand, although by now many people in Proz know my behavior, my feedback was prompted because I did not want anybody else to think the same.
| | | | Anne Bohy
France
Local time: 23:41
English to French
| Good idea: answerers must be educated (including me) | Oct 10, 2008 |
Stéphanie Soudais wrote:
When this happens in my pair, I usually put a "neutral" to all answerers and tell them that answering questions that do not respect KudoZ rules does not encourage the asker to reformulate his/her question. Don't really know if this is useful or not...
Stéphanie
I got two of these neutrals, recently, and I appreciated it, as a mind refresher. I have been shocked by askers closing questions where a lot of people had lost time to help, without grading or giving any reason, but did not memorize the names of the askers.
I like this idea of getting warned, and I am considering spending more time maintaining my own "filter" list (although I don't receive notifications). I am a bit Kudoz-addict, but I do understand that I should be more carefull and not encourage bad behaviors.
| | | | moken
Local time: 22:41
English to Spanish
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TOPIC STARTER | Very refreshing bohy: I need reminding too (Comments too for Lia and Tomás) | Oct 11, 2008 |
Bohy, I need reminding too. Plenty. I try very hard to keep my own KudoZ behaviour in check, but I'm often guilty of answering questions with no context, among other answering 'sins'. It's often difficult to refrain when you see so many q's answered in such circumstances. In past forums I have often made calls for all of us to be exercise more self-criticism with very little response, so your post is most welcome and refreshing.
If I re-wrote the intro to this thread perhaps I'd po... See more Bohy, I need reminding too. Plenty. I try very hard to keep my own KudoZ behaviour in check, but I'm often guilty of answering questions with no context, among other answering 'sins'. It's often difficult to refrain when you see so many q's answered in such circumstances. In past forums I have often made calls for all of us to be exercise more self-criticism with very little response, so your post is most welcome and refreshing.
If I re-wrote the intro to this thread perhaps I'd point all of this out and title it "Help ME to be a better KudoZ answerer".
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Lia, this has always been brought up, and you may be right.
However, I do feel that the points are an added stimulus for many contributors (myself included). There are other sites that run non-point QA systems, but I get the impression that Kudoz generates more interest and thus more help/insight from fellow translators, albeit with the drawback of often having to separate the wheat from a mountain of chaff. Scrapping points would change KudoZ radically and the consequences for the site would be unpredicatable, possibly catastrophic for its commercial interests.
So, no, I honestly think we should try to improve the system - or our use of it - rather than scrap it.
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Tomás, in my small KudoZ world I nickname you The Gladiator (or do you think you're more a KudoZ reincarnation of Don Quixote?). No offence intended. I often ask myself how you manage without smashing your keyboard. Honestly. Do you have soft keys set to automatically ask for context, target country etc.? What a time-saver that would be for you eh?
However, as I've pointed out, I feel the ball shouldn't stop there. I too in the past have spent valuable energy requesting askers to supply different sorts of context, but in the long-term it's frustrating, because nothing seems to change.
Using myself as an example, I think answerers are often sucked in by prevailing attitudes, thus feeding a vicious circle that we need to break. Our own individual efforts are commendable, but perhaps insufficient.
That's why I think shifting or at least complementing this approach with more feedback (wake-up calls if you like) between answerers could be an interesting move. Only today, I answered a spate of sports questions that provided almost no context when perhaps I should have insisted on asking for further clarification. So feel free to bring my own bad answering habits to my attention. Perahps the example will spread. ▲ Collapse
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