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This question was closed without grading. Reason: Other
Sep 30, 2015 13:12
8 yrs ago
1 viewer *
German term

Aussicht auf Wahrheit

German to English Science Physics Physik, Relativitätstheorie
Im Kontext geht es darum, verschiedene Ansätze für die Relativitätstheorie und deren Aufnahme durch andere Wissenschaftler zu beschreiben. Bei folgendem Satz habe ich ein Übersetzungsproblem, da ich *Aussicht auf Wahrheit* lt. Kundenfeedback nicht gut übersetzt habe. Meine Variante *prospects for truth* ist offen gesprochen zerlegt worden.

Bitte deshalb um Hilfe wie es denn besser übersetzt werden kann oder ob *prospects for truth* gar nicht so schlecht ist.

Source:
Eine theoretische Konstruktion hat kaum *Aussicht auf Wahrheit* wenn sie nicht logisch sehr einfach ist.

Hilfe wäre nett.
Proposed translations (English)
3 +4 prospect of verification
3 +1 potential for truth
3 can hardly be verified/confirmed/substantiated
3 -1 chance of being truthful
References
existing translation

Discussion

dkfmmuc (asker) Oct 7, 2015:
:-) :-)
Björn Vrooman Oct 7, 2015:
LOL I do hope you don't have to miss out on breakfast until the payment arrives, though!
dkfmmuc (asker) Oct 7, 2015:
Thanks Björn & Ramey for the encouragement. Knowing the customer for many years so I don't see the risk there.

But if you like I will keep you updated after payment and just send an image link where I had breakfast on the day the payment arrived....
dkfmmuc (asker) Oct 7, 2015:
Hey Ramey! I didn't want to say that your post was unfriendly, for me it is *completely* ok. And as you may know I appreciate your work and your participation.

"Das gildet nicht" is 100 % true! I simply hadn't time and desire to discuss this with the agency due to the fact that the delivery date was very tight. Also don't want to create a mess there, I am thinking the search for the perfect translation for this project is an epic endeavour.

Furthermore the agency has a strong base in many language pairs but no specialist for that type of book. Therefore I had to hand over the baton to the "runner" of the second part of the race :-)

Best regards

Gerd
Björn Vrooman Oct 7, 2015:
Haha, yes I can imagine. I do agree that it's unfortunate he never got an answer back, but I suspected as much. Around 90% of the revisions I make can be explained one way or the other, but I have encountered proofreaders and translators for whom everything is just "done by feeling." They will tell you it's incomprehensible, but won't know why either.

Gerd just should be aware that this will not present grounds for discounts or the like. German law quite clearly states that the translator needs to deliver an "improved" version in such cases.
Ramey Rieger (X) Oct 7, 2015:
Hi Björn I'm surrounded by children and youth, it rubs off (and it's fun!)
Björn Vrooman Oct 7, 2015:
"Das gildet nicht" - haven't heard that in ages. Do people in Rhineland-Palatinate still say that?

Guess proofreader with no feedback? Already thought so. Unfortunately, there seem to be a lot of those who can't explain one bit.
Ramey Rieger (X) Oct 7, 2015:
Hey Gerd! I was being flippant, but certainly not unfriendly. I apologize for any misunderstandings. That's a bummer though, I'd really like to know.
dkfmmuc (asker) Oct 7, 2015:
Hey Ramey! Thanks for your friendly request for information. I am really sorry that I don't know the final version of the proofreading. My variant *prospects for truth* hasn't found a fan there.

So simply I can add: I don't know.
Ramey Rieger (X) Oct 7, 2015:
Hey Gerd! Das gildet nicht! Wie hast Du es letztendes übersetzt??
dkfmmuc (asker) Oct 7, 2015:
Vielen Dank für das Mitdenken!
dkfmmuc (asker) Oct 1, 2015:
@Björn: Leider ganz ohne Erklärung Die Kritik lautete nur, dass meine Variante keine Übersetzung wäre (-> unverständliche Übersetzung).

Dass nehm ich einfach mal so hin, ich habe ja jetzt sehr gute Vorschläge bekommen.

Danke dafür.
Björn Vrooman Sep 30, 2015:
@dkfmmuc "Meine Variante *prospects for truth* ist offen gesprochen zerlegt worden."

Any explanation given? Haven't seen you mentioning it, but it'd be nice to know.
Daniel Arnold (X) Sep 30, 2015:
Ich finde "potential" bringt die "Aussicht auf" ganz gut rüber. Bei "truth" bin ich mir völlig unsicher, ich denke es geht in Richtung "Wahrhaftigkeit" oder so ähnlich. Ich habe aber eigentlich kein grosses problem mit "truth".
Steffen Walter Sep 30, 2015:
True vs. false Hier geht es m. E. um den Gegensatz zwischen "true" und "false". Vielleicht hilft hier eine adjektivische Konstruktion: "... will hardly be true unless its logic is very simple"?

Proposed translations

+4
9 mins

prospect of verification

Nothing wrong with 'prospect'. The preposition needs to be changed from 'for' to 'of'.
https://www.google.co.uk/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&rlz=1...

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 10 mins (2015-09-30 13:23:43 GMT)
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kaum > limited

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 15 mins (2015-09-30 13:27:52 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/verus
verus (Latin) = true (Eng)
Peer comment(s):
agree philgoddard : Good idea.
16 mins
agree Alice Bergfeld
24 mins
agree Björn Vrooman : I'd prefer "model" over "construction," though. But, of course, the context is missing.
7 hrs
Certainly hard to see the case for construction
agree Hans-Jochen Trost : I found the source and agree that "prospect for/of truth" is not a good choice; "verification" gets the combined term in the right direction. I'd use "construct" for "Konstruktion" and "hardly" for "kaum".
15 hrs
Something went wrong...
32 mins

can hardly be verified/confirmed/substantiated

Somewhat simplified

A theoretical construction can hardly be verified/confirmed/substantiated when its logic is anything other than very simple.

Something went wrong...
+1
29 mins

potential for truth

There is little potential for truth in a theoretical construct if it is not logically very simple.


--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 31 mins (2015-09-30 13:44:20 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

http://tinyurl.com/ntjntnn

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 46 mins (2015-09-30 13:59:43 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

“Physics constitutes a logical system of thought which is in a state of evolution, whose basis (principles) cannot be distilled, as it were, from experience by an inductive method, but can only be arrived at by free invention. The justification (truth content) of the system rests in the verification of the derived propositions (a priori/logical truths) by sense experiences (a posteriori/empirical truths). ... Evolution is proceeding in the direction of increasing simplicity of the logical basis (principles). .. We must always be ready to change these notions - that is to say, the axiomatic basis of physics - in order to do justice to perceived facts in the most perfect way logically.” (Albert Einstein, Physics and Reality, 1936)
Peer comment(s):
agree Daniel Arnold (X) : potential is good !
6 hrs
Something went wrong...
-1
22 mins

chance of being truthful

Example:
"A major objection, anticipated by Charles Peirce in his work on economy of research, but soon forgotten, is that discovery path must be coupled to justification in the minimal sense that unless some of the theory candidates to be tested have a chance of being truthful or at least fruitful, hypotheticalism has no chance of reaching its epistemic goals."
https://books.google.com/books?id=CbQqAAAAQBAJ&pg=PA498&lpg=...

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 55 mins (2015-09-30 14:08:09 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Here's my version of the full sentence:

"A theoretical construction has little chance of being truthful unless it consists of simple, logical steps."
Peer comment(s):
disagree Cilian O'Tuama : bandying words about // Oh master of language no one speaks.
9 hrs
Looks like the task of making rational comments is too taxing for you..//With comments like these, you don’t sound like the master of anything..
Something went wrong...

Reference comments

1 day 11 hrs
Reference:

existing translation

Auszug aus einem Brief Albert Einsteins an Frau Rosenthal-Schneider vom 23. April 1949
„Eddington hat viele geistreiche Vorschläge gemacht, die ich jedoch nicht alle verfolgt habe. Ich finde, dass er im Allgemeinen seinen eigenen Ideen gegenüber merkwürdig unkritisch gewesen ist. Er hat wenig Gefühl dafür gehabt, dass eine theoretische Konstruktion kaum Aufsicht auf Wahrheit hat, wenn sie nicht logisch sehr einfach ist.“
https://goo.gl/vvAwM5

Übersetzt hier in “The Constants of Nature” by John Barrow als:
“Eddington made many ingenious suggestions, but I have not followed them all up. I find that he has a rule curiously uncritical toward his own ideas. He had little feeling for the need for a theoretical construction to be logically very simple if it is to have any prospect of being true.”

https://goo.gl/NkikFY

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 6 days (2015-10-06 16:58:14 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Hi there "dkfmmuc", it feels a bit strange to post somebody else's published translation as my own suggestion; I think this is where it really belongs - in the reference section :-) Cheers
Note from asker:
Dear colleague, thank you for this wonderful research. Would be fine if you could entry this as an answer.
Peer comments on this reference comment:
agree Björn Vrooman : Sometimes I don't wanna know what research you're doing for free here.
6 hrs
just paying it forward...:-)
Something went wrong...
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