| Pages in topic: < [1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11] > | Kudoz - Leader list - A good moment to sort by usefulness rate too? Thread poster: Tomás Cano Binder, BA, CT
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Indeed, this is an old suggestion, but that makes it no less interesting!
efreitag wrote:
I find Tomás' suggestion very good and well worth implementing (and I have said so before in similar threads). One thing to consider: A minimum number of questions (maybe 50?) should be necessary before a participant appears in said list. Otherwise the best strategy would be: 1. Answer one question where you're absolutely sure that you'll get the points. 2. Answer no more questions. That way, your ratio will be 100% (with only one question answered), and you'll be (and stay) right on top of the list.
Absolutely. As with so many suggested "improvements", the deviousness of the human mind is often overlooked.
And before anyone says "how can you be sure you'll get the points if the Asker is choosing the answer", the answer is obvious - get a friend to ask a question that you know an excellent answer to, and you're on your way.
I would venture to suggest that not only should there be a minimum number of questions, but there could also be a period of time over which the questions should have been answered - 3 months at least.
| | | | Attila Piróth 
France
Local time: 09:38
Member
English to Hungarian
+ ...
| In favor of giving much more visibility to such an indicator | Jun 16, 2009 |
This idea has been proposed several times, under several names, including "Reliability ratio". I am in favor of giving much more visibility to such an indicator; efreitag's and Christine's examples show very clearly that under certain circumstances this is a much better guide than the total number of KudoZ points. Among past proposals, there have been quite a few that were rather complicated; simplicity is of key importance here.
I think that the total number of KudoZ points divided... See more This idea has been proposed several times, under several names, including "Reliability ratio". I am in favor of giving much more visibility to such an indicator; efreitag's and Christine's examples show very clearly that under certain circumstances this is a much better guide than the total number of KudoZ points. Among past proposals, there have been quite a few that were rather complicated; simplicity is of key importance here.
I think that the total number of KudoZ points divided by the number of submitted answers is probably a better indicator than the acceptance ratio (even though I would not expect big differences, as selected answers get 4 KudoZ points in the overwhelming majority of cases).
I agree with efreitag's remark that such an indicator can be considered relevant for users who have answered a certain number of KudoZ questions.
I would also welcome if such an indicator were shown the same way someone's KudoZ points are shown next to the answerer's name when he/she provides an answer to a KudoZ question (even though I would caution askers against attributing too much importance to this number).
Listing this indicator per subfield raises some questions; in small language pair + field combinations, the total number of questions may be so low that any reasonable number that would make the statistics relevant may prove to be too high. So, clearly indicating the limits of the utility of such a listing is quite important. Nonetheless the global indicator that takes into account a users answers in all language pairs and subject fields has its utility, too: it may discourage people from replying in a language pair in which they don't work. (It has also been suggested that in language pairs that are not listed as working pairs, users should not be able to submit KudoZ answers, just discussion entries. However, this may be a bit OT in this thread.)
So, yes, I am in favor of more visibility to such an indicator. The name "usefulness rate" would not be my first choice, but this is of quite little importance at this stage.
Attila ▲ Collapse
| | | | Anne-Marie Grant (X)
Local time: 08:38
French to English
+ ...
by the thought that anyone would get their friend to post a question, just so they could earn some points. Stunned. I will never fail to be amazed by the competitiveness on here!!
| | | | | I saw Elvis!! | Jun 16, 2009 |
Anne-Marie Grant wrote:
by the thought that anyone would get their friend to post a question, just so they could earn some points. Stunned. I will never fail to be amazed by the competitiveness on here!!
Yes, and actually I saw Elvis buying big quantities of tomato juice in my local supermarket!!!
Edited for those who haven't yet had their coffee today (I haven't): I mean that the "I ask, you answer, I give you the points", "scratch my back and I scratch yours" thing is an urban legend. We can be happy that Kudoz is a normal society!! We even have our urban legends!!
[Edited at 2009-06-16 09:50 GMT]
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Erik Freitag
Germany
Local time: 09:38
Member (2006)
Dutch to German
+ ...
| just as a matter of principle | Jun 16, 2009 |
Charlie Bavington wrote: Indeed, this is an old suggestion, but that makes it no less interesting! efreitag wrote:
I find Tomás' suggestion very good and well worth implementing (and I have said so before in similar threads). One thing to consider: A minimum number of questions (maybe 50?) should be necessary before a participant appears in said list. Otherwise the best strategy would be: 1. Answer one question where you're absolutely sure that you'll get the points. 2. Answer no more questions. That way, your ratio will be 100% (with only one question answered), and you'll be (and stay) right on top of the list.
Absolutely. As with so many suggested "improvements", the deviousness of the human mind is often overlooked. And before anyone says "how can you be sure you'll get the points if the Asker is choosing the answer", the answer is obvious - get a friend to ask a question that you know an excellent answer to, and you're on your way. I would venture to suggest that not only should there be a minimum number of questions, but there could also be a period of time over which the questions should have been answered - 3 months at least.
Well, I don't really think that people actually would do this (it could easily be recognized anyway). But still, the system should prevent this beforehand.
| | | | Nikki Graham
United Kingdom
Local time: 08:38
Spanish to English
Tomás Cano Binder, CT wrote:
The Kudoz leader list can become a very good instrument, but it is not at present in my opinion, as now a critical factor is how long you have been in Proz. Reaching top positions in the list is very difficult for new users who provide very good help, so there is no incentive to do so.
This is one of the main reasons why the system should be changed. It is totally unfair to new users, or indeed anyone who joined Proz after those in the top ten. People shouldn't be forced to answer anything that moves at lightning speed just to get onto the leader board. We all know that this results in bad quality answers, a cluttered glossary, etc., etc., etc.
We have been talking about this for years and nothing has ever changed. However, if this flaw was rectified, it might solve a lot of other problems at the same time...
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Attila Piróth wrote:
So, yes, I am in favor of more visibility to such an indicator. The name "usefulness rate" would not be my first choice, but this is of quite little importance at this stage.
Indeed I think that a simple ratio like Kudoz points / answers would be clear enough, without having to complicate the system at all.
As for the name "usefulness rate", of course I did not mean to offend anyone! Any suggestions?
[Edited at 2009-06-16 09:46 GMT]
| | | | | Not meaning to "mend the world"! | Jun 16, 2009 |
Nikki Graham wrote:
We have been talking about this for years and nothing has ever changed. However, if this flaw was rectified, it might solve a lot of other problems at the same time...
Please notice Nikki that my proposal is merely aimed towards giving a little bit of recognition to those of us who try to give more comprehensive replies in the fields we know well, as opposed to the lightning quick help provided by many other users, which is also good for other reasons.
I did not mean to fix the world Nikki! Just to add a list sorted in a different way, for optional viewing!
[Edited at 2009-06-16 09:54 GMT]
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| Opinions so far: 8 for it; 2 against it. | Jun 16, 2009 |
Thanks folks! Let's keep those For/Against rolling!
| | | | | Be as cynical as you like... | Jun 16, 2009 |
Tomás Cano Binder, CT wrote:
Edited for those who haven't yet had their coffee today (I haven't): I mean that the "I ask, you answer, I give you the points", "scratch my back and I scratch yours" thing is an urban legend. We can be happy that Kudoz is a normal society!! We even have our urban legends!!
... and in truth the people involved are no longer active members, but I have in the past been involved in email discussions on terminology where, having arrived at a conclusion as to the best term we could come up with, the suggestion was made, more than once, that the question could be posted on here, I would suggest the answer, and I would be awarded the points. If it's happened to me, I see no reason not to think it has happened to others (especially as one of those involved had quite a wide circle of offline proz chums in addition to me), and no reason to think that some of those people might not have taken advantage of the opportunity offered.
Back in the days when I used to care about kudoz, I did see some remarkably suspicious asker/answer patterns, but it's impossible to prove one way or the other. Until, as I say, it happens to you, and then you know.
(Edit to correct meaning!)
[Edited at 2009-06-16 10:21 GMT]
| | | | | I was not cynical! | Jun 16, 2009 |
Charlie Bavington wrote: Tomás Cano Binder, CT wrote:
Edited for those who haven't yet had their coffee today (I haven't): I mean that the "I ask, you answer, I give you the points", "scratch my back and I scratch yours" thing is an urban legend. We can be happy that Kudoz is a normal society!! We even have our urban legends!! Be as cynical as you like...
Actually I was not cynical! I just don't believe in that urban legend of people actively working to raise their Kudoz point figure by cheating. And if it ever happened, it must have been a really small phenomenon as I have never seen it in almost 10 years!
| | | | Aniello Scognamiglio (X)
Germany
Local time: 09:38
English to German
+ ...
| It's not black and white | Jun 16, 2009 |
Tomás Cano Binder, CT wrote: Thanks folks! Let's keep those For/Against rolling!
I did not say that I'm *against* something. I only said that there is no need to change the current system. That's my opinion. I will comment some posts later (no time right now to go into detail).
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Tomás Cano Binder, CT wrote:
I just don't believe in that urban legend of people actively working to raise their Kudoz point figure by cheating. And if it ever happened, it must have been a really small phenomenon as I have never seen it in almost 10 years!
Probably depends on one's own experience.
Fr-Eng used to be a fairly vicious environment at one stage, until a couple of people got chucked off the site and a couple of others withdrew from the fray. Competition for points was fierce, possibly to vaguely ridiculous lengths*. This was the context in which I was offered points on a plate, the assumption being that I would be grateful to get some easy points safe in the knowledge that no matter how vigourous the debate, it was a done deal and in the bag. As I say, there was some odd behaviour back then.
*not forgetting that points = search ranking, and search ranking is potentially $£$, so some do take it very seriously.
Your comment on what you have and haven't seen is interesting. Proz is currently trying to sell me paid membership (advert on home page) on the grounds that my current ranking in Fr-Eng in IT is 640-something (although it was 730-ish 2 weeks ago!) and if I paid, I'd be number 1. Hurrah!
Yet I was a paid member for 6 months until last month and received not a sniff as a result of being number one in my best field. Just because I never get contacted as a result of my ranking, am I to assume that the whole notion is an utter fabrication, and that search engine ranking is worthless? Or do I believe those who say that being top of the kudoz leader board has bought in business? Or perhaps it is just a "really small phenomenon"?
| | | | | I'm a Thomas | Jun 16, 2009 |
Charlie Bavington wrote: Or perhaps it is just a "really small phenomenon"?
Charlie, you mustn't forget that I am a Thomas, and as such I don't believe anything until I have touched it!
| | | | | I doff my cap | Jun 16, 2009 |
Tomás Cano Binder, CT wrote: Charlie, you mustn't forget that I am a Thomas, and as such I don't believe anything until I have touched it!
Ah yes, I had overlooked that Nice one - keep up the good work
(We should also not forget that Charlie is etymologically related to churl and as such I'm bound to be a bit churlish from time to time!)
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