| Pagina's in het onderwerp: < [1 2 3 4 5 6] > | Enhancement of the KudoZ system by discouraging questions without context - A proposal De persoon die dit onderwerp heeft geplaatst: Ángel Domínguez
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hazmatgerman (X)
Local time: 05:52
Engels naar Duits
| Better KOG as Grosschmid suggests | Jul 4, 2008 |
Perfect idea. It leaves individuals with a choice of answering, helping, using or what have you, but keeps bad apples from the glossary.
| | | | | Oh my goodness!!! | Jul 4, 2008 |
Oh my. That's all I can say now... :-/
[Edited at 2008-07-04 13:41]
| | | | CMJ_Trans (X)
Local time: 05:52
Frans naar Engels
+ ...
| Hear ! Hear ! | Jul 4, 2008 |
[quote]Marie-Hélène Hayles wrote:
[
Now I am stupefied.
And forgive me for putting it so bluntly Enrique, but I've tried saying it gently and it's fallen on deaf ears... from my point of view the primary objective of Kudoz does not seem to be providing help to askers, but simply to increase site traffic. And you (the site, not you personally) are doing this at your own peril, as the net effect is to alienate and drive away the very people you should be trying your utmost to keep - the professionals.]
But as Charlie suggests - we are wasting our time (none so deaf as those who won't hear...)
| | | | | I strongly disagree | Jul 4, 2008 |
Tomás Cano Binder wrote: Oh my goodness!!! So Kudoz should be a Youtube of translation terms. Everything fits in, everything is valid, everything is OK no matter how wrong or how low-quality.... just because traffic is needed in order to charge more for the ads shown in the website.
I strongly disagree with this statement. Helping the asker has always been the objective of KudoZ. The site is based on results-oriented collaboration for mutual benefit. A collaborative spirit is at the heart of ProZ.com and everything in it. It is about sharing.
Askers are users with term help needs, and some users have the knowledge and the willingness to provide such help.
Users who consider the question "too easy" or "not good enough" can decide not to answer it. Others may provide their contributions and provide the help requested.
The asker should select the answer that was found most useful.
Preventing people in need of help from making use of the site because their questions are deemed "not good enough" by other users would go against the collaborative spirit the site was built upon.
Traffic is important, of course, but it is definitely not the issue here.
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Dear Enrique, dear Colleagues:
I would appreciate if this succession of monologues would become a pragmatic dialogue leading us somewhere.
As I see it, there are many colleagues who think that there is a serious problem in Kudoz, and many suggestions have been brought forward to enhance the system.
However, from all Enrique's answers, especially his two last posts, I gather that in this field there is no intention of considering any suggestion or doing any... See more Dear Enrique, dear Colleagues:
I would appreciate if this succession of monologues would become a pragmatic dialogue leading us somewhere.
As I see it, there are many colleagues who think that there is a serious problem in Kudoz, and many suggestions have been brought forward to enhance the system.
However, from all Enrique's answers, especially his two last posts, I gather that in this field there is no intention of considering any suggestion or doing anything at all.
If this is so, dear Enrique, just say it clearly, so everyone can decide what to do in future.
[Edited at 2008-07-04 13:51] ▲ Collapse
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Pablo Grosschmid wrote:
However, from all Enrique's answers, especially his two last posts, I gather that in this field there is no intention of considering any suggestion or doing anything at all.
If this is so, dear Enrique, just say it clearly, so everyone can decide what to do in future.
Hi Pablo,
I disagreed with the suggestion of blocking questions who some user could consider as having not enough context.
I also stated that the main objective of KudoZ is to help the asker.
I also said that important work is being currently done on glossary and quality. We expect this will make a difference in the near future.
Regards,
Enrique
| | | | Marina Soldati 
Argentinië
Local time: 00:52
Lid 2005
Engels naar Spaans
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| We cannot even judge | Jul 4, 2008 |
Enrique wrote:
Preventing people in need of help from making use of the site because their questions are deemed "not good enough" by other users would go against the collaborative spirit the site was built upon.
Traffic is important, of course, but it is definitely not the issue here.
Hi all!
I hope I can make myself clear on this issue.
Enrique, you said that helping is the most important purpose of Kudoz. Can´t you understand that we want to help! That´s the reason we are suggesting all this changes. But we cannot help with questions like:
English to Spanish / Other
Term or phrase: commissioned
related to software
(This is not an actual question, I made it up based on a question posted yesterday)
There´s no possible way to help an Asker who does not provide the minimum context.
It´s not whether we deem questions "not good enough" or not. Based on so little information, nobody can make any judgement at all!
If providing help is your utmost concern, then you should set up the means for really providing it, that is, helping the Asker realize how important context is.
Nice weekend to you all!
Marina
| | | | | thanks, Enrique | Jul 4, 2008 |
for your last post:
As to blocking questions:
most of us also disagreed with this part of the initial proposal, so it is already in the dustbin
Regarding help the asker:
and we would like to be able to help askers better - with systematic lack of context we can't
As to work in progress on glossary and quality:
please keep us posted on this, I just hope that said work on glossary and quality will also take into account that the qua... See more for your last post:
As to blocking questions:
most of us also disagreed with this part of the initial proposal, so it is already in the dustbin
Regarding help the asker:
and we would like to be able to help askers better - with systematic lack of context we can't
As to work in progress on glossary and quality:
please keep us posted on this, I just hope that said work on glossary and quality will also take into account that the quality of answers (and, consequently, that of those chosen and "glossarized") depends a lot on the context provided.
[Edited at 2008-07-04 14:17]
[Edited at 2008-07-04 14:21] ▲ Collapse
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| We want to help!!!!! | Jul 4, 2008 |
Marina Soldati wrote:
I hope I can make myself clear on this issue.
Enrique, you said that helping is the most important purpose of Kudoz. Can´t you understand that we want to help! That´s the reason we are suggesting all this changes.
Exactly. This is exactly my point! We don't want to give an aspirine, but REAL help! Seems that my medical analogy was not very popular though...
| | | | | People in need of help... please tell us what help you need! | Jul 4, 2008 |
Enrique wrote:
Preventing people in need of help from making use of the site because their questions are deemed "not good enough" by other users would go against the collaborative spirit the site was built upon.
Ok, but the fact is that they don't tell us what help is needed!
Traffic is important, of course, but it is definitely not the issue here.
Ok, ok, Enrique! As you know, in Spanish we say "A buen entendedor, pocas palabras bastan" ("A few words are enough to the good listener").
| | | | | Kudoz vs. other Proz area improvements | Jul 4, 2008 |
I am not a frequent Kudoz participant, for various reasons, some of which have been mentioned in this thread and in other similar ones.
However, in spite of my lack of participation in Kudoz, I have participated in it enough to have realized that Kudoz in particular seems to be an area where certain suggestions or well-intended creative ideas for improvement expressed by "Kudoz-expert" prozians or newbies alike have not been addressed after years of insistence, unlike what has happe... See more I am not a frequent Kudoz participant, for various reasons, some of which have been mentioned in this thread and in other similar ones.
However, in spite of my lack of participation in Kudoz, I have participated in it enough to have realized that Kudoz in particular seems to be an area where certain suggestions or well-intended creative ideas for improvement expressed by "Kudoz-expert" prozians or newbies alike have not been addressed after years of insistence, unlike what has happened in other areas of Proz, where suggestions seem to be implemented a lot more quickly.
For instance, I certainly don't understand the argument that the "help" part of Kudoz should have priority over the glossary part, because obviously there are Kudoz points involved (which help improve your directory ranking), so answerers do not always answer out of pure goodwill or mere willingness to help.
So in this respect, it would make sense that business (traffic?) interests explain Proz's "inflexibility" about this priority order and about making any changes that affect this. I can accept such reasons as legitimate ones, even if I don't agree with them, because I am sure Proz, like any other business, exists mostly and above all to make profit.
Therefore, I agree that it would be much more "enlightening", to understand better Proz's "logic" and to avoid going around circles in similar discussions, that at least Proz were always more straightforward about this, so that we establish as well our own priorities in regard to investing time in Kudoz or, furthermore, considering it an important feature to pay for membership.
Saludos,
Ivette ▲ Collapse
| | | | | Important work underway... | Jul 4, 2008 |
Enrique wrote:
I also said that important work is being currently done on glossary and quality. We expect this will make a difference in the near future.
Enrique, I am sure we all would appreciate some insight on what kind of changes can be expected. Will any of the changes promote better questions and more control over cheeky, lazy askers (oops! Sorry folks, I meant to say "askers who just happen to be in a permanent hurry and desperately needing our very valued help")?
And... I apologise in front of you all for my rude ways of expressing things in this forum. Maybe I am a bit tired of seeing no positive development. It is not my intention to be unkind to anyone. Sorry if I stepped on anybody's toes!
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Andrea Riffo
Chili
Local time: 23:52
Engels naar Spaans
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Are you really?
Greetings,
Andrea
| | | | Andrea Riffo
Chili
Local time: 23:52
Engels naar Spaans
+ ...
Enrique wrote:
I also said that important work is being currently done on glossary and quality. We expect this will make a difference in the near future.
Regards,
Enrique
I would love to to know what such work entails and, more importantly, if it will take into account any of the numerous suggestions that have been made in the past years that have thus far fallen on deaf ears.
A non-exhaustive list includes (in the Kudoz section as a whole):
- Eliminating Kudoz altogether, to deterr point-grabbers
- Set a reliability indicator along with kudoz points (ratio between proposed and accepted answers)
- Enforce the rule that apparently some have wished to eliminate
- Keep askers from publishing X number of questions in a short span of time (eg., 5 questions in 5 minutes)
- Include a "more context needed" button
For the record, my mentioning them does not nesessarily mean I support all of them. They are just the ones I remember right now.
Greetings
Andrea
[Edited at 2008-07-04 22:23]
| | | | | "ProZ.com is home to the world's largest community of professional translators" | Jul 4, 2008 |
is a ProZ claim.
In my opinion it'd be equally valid to state that:
"ProZ.com is home to the world's largest community of UNprofessional translators".
(So as not to be accused of posting an irrelevant comment)
People who post Qs without context don't know what translation means!
But that matters not, just register at ProZ and become a member of the world's largest community of...
We're a paying (corporate) member for reasons that benef... See more is a ProZ claim.
In my opinion it'd be equally valid to state that:
"ProZ.com is home to the world's largest community of UNprofessional translators".
(So as not to be accused of posting an irrelevant comment)
People who post Qs without context don't know what translation means!
But that matters not, just register at ProZ and become a member of the world's largest community of...
We're a paying (corporate) member for reasons that benefit our company (otherwise I'd be a non-paying user/member), but we do try to avoid any unnecessary association with this site, e.g.
- by opting out of "featured pro/ new member",
- by declining to support WWA/BB,
- by refusing to even consider endorsing the "Professional Guidelines" (because I don't see them being enforced, implemented or even encouraged by the site)
partly because we fear it may reflect badly on us.
Seems to me like the site's foremost aim is to generate traffic/turnover, and that member professional translators and translation offices/agents are their vehicle/selling point.
Come on! Something is askew!
Kim Metzger wrote:
I thought the site was interested in improving quality. Maybe not.
I for one gave up all hope of that many many months ago, Kim, after umpteen attempts to prompt changes/improvements and after several fruitless discussions.
But the site is still useful for other things, if you know what you're looking for and how best to find it. Even the Kudoz arena is sometimes useful (not nearly as much as it could be)! But newcomers are in for a nasty surprise if they assume they're surrounded by pros.
Nice weekend to all,
Cilian ▲ Collapse
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