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Les lices

English translation: the lices

13:19 Oct 7, 2021
French to English translations [PRO]
Tech/Engineering - History / Relates to castle architecture
French term or phrase: Les lices
La croisade des Albigeois est terminée, mais les menaces restent nombreuses dans la région. Pour renforcer les défenses de la Cité, Saint-Louis ordonne tout d’abord la construction d’une deuxième enceinte de remparts. Vous le voyez autour de vous, DES LICES séparent désormais les deux murailles.

This will be part of an audioguide to Carcasonne.
Andrew Sharp
United Kingdom
Local time: 07:16
English translation:the lices
Explanation:
The term is still used for large market places inmedieval towns. "Les Lices used to be the places for duels or tournaments hence the expression "entre en lice"!
Selected response from:

Pierre POUSSIN
France
Local time: 08:16
Grading comment
I don't understand why apart from Mr Goddard there are not more agrees to this. Simple and obvious.
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer



Summary of answers provided
5 +4The lists
JaneD
4the lices
Pierre POUSSIN
2 +2(outer) bailey/ward
SafeTex
4the "area enclosed by the (outer) defensive walls
Yvonne Gallagher


Discussion entries: 8





  

Answers


2 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 5/5 peer agreement (net): +4
The lists


Explanation:
"The lists, or list field, was the arena where a jousting event was held."


    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jousting
JaneD
Sweden
Local time: 08:16
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
Notes to answerer
Asker: How do you add explanations or 'context' in an audioguide that is timed to the second. Also 'jousting' is just relevant to a period in history but the guide covers the entire history from 6th C BC to now


Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Melanie Kathan
55 mins
  -> Thanks Melanie
agree  Tony M
1 hr
  -> Thanks Tony
agree  Samuël Buysschaert
1 hr
  -> Thanks Samuel
neutral  philgoddard: As the previous question shows, I don't believe this is an adequate answer. Also, listeners won't know what it means.
1 hr
  -> Of course not, but if there isn't an explanation in the next sentence, you'd have to add one (again, depending on the target audience). As always, context, context, context...!
agree  Jean Lachaud: How about simply calling this "jousting fields/lists"?
2 days 40 mins
  -> Thanks Jean
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12 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5
the lices


Explanation:
The term is still used for large market places inmedieval towns. "Les Lices used to be the places for duels or tournaments hence the expression "entre en lice"!


    https://www.tourisme-rennes.com/fr/decouvrir-rennes/histoire/place-des-lices/
Pierre POUSSIN
France
Local time: 08:16
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: Native in FrenchFrench
PRO pts in category: 24
Grading comment
I don't understand why apart from Mr Goddard there are not more agrees to this. Simple and obvious.
Notes to answerer
Asker: In the end 'les lices' is on all the maps and the English lang version of the website. I take it as a real name that should be retained.


Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
disagree  JaneD: Not an appropriate solution in this case.
15 mins
  -> Why?
agree  philgoddard: I believe this is an appropriate solution provided you add an explanatory sentence or two.
1 hr
  -> Thank you!
neutral  Yvonne Gallagher: this particular context is not about "large market places in medieval towns" but the area between the walls of the castle
2 days 4 hrs
  -> Thanks!
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8 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 2/5Answerer confidence 2/5 peer agreement (net): +2
(outer) bailey/ward


Explanation:
Maybe not the right answer but probably on the right track if you want a common "English" word for this type of thing.

The first reference is particularly interesting




    https://military.wikia.org/wiki/Ward_(castle)
    https://www.britannica.com/technology/bailey
SafeTex
France
Local time: 08:16
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 3

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Adrian MM.: with castle ward 'jousting arenas' > bailey, after tucking into a large cassoulet lunch in the area like Yours Truly, might conjure up the Old Bailey or Bailey's Irish Cream https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bailey_(castle)
51 mins
  -> Thanks Adrian but I'm not sure I was the first to suggest it.
agree  Nikki Scott-Despaigne: https://www.cnrtl.fr/definition/lice And "haha" for "Old Bailey". ;-)
1 day 12 hrs
  -> Thanks Nikki but I'm not sure I was the first to suggest it.
neutral  Yvonne Gallagher: You were defintely not the first to suggest it. Suggested in the previous answer and in Dbox. I initally agreed with it as is CLEARLY seen from timing. I deleted my 1st answer as I changed my mind about using "bailey" after finding photos
1 day 20 hrs
  -> Hello. Bearing in mind what my first reference says, it may turn out to be if not the only correct answer, at least a feasible one. Sorry about posting it when it was mentioned in discussion but I think I zapped over the discussion by accicdent in fact.
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5 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5
the "area enclosed by the (outer) defensive walls


Explanation:
Explanation:
I think "interior space" (used in the Lonely Planet" guide) is rather poor and inaccurate as an explanation. I also agree with Phil that most people won't understand "the lists", especially on an audio file.

I agreed with the posters on the previous answer about "bailey". But the simpler "outer ward or outer enclosure" could be used on an audio. See here with photo of Carcassonne

https://www.castlesandmanorhouses.com/architecture_07_traini...

The Lists (lices) is the area between the inner and outer walls of a castle or town with two sets of defensive walls.


https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/bailey

2: a courtyard within the external wall or between two outer walls of a castle

I don't suggest using "courtyard" here as it looks like a continuous enclosure right around the castle between the two walls here at Carcassonne

I might keep the French, in brackets, but highlight the simple explanation e.g.

All around you is the enclosed area between the inner and outer walls of the castle's defensive walls (known as "les lices")



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Note added at 6 days (2021-10-14 10:28:36 GMT) Post-grading
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well, pity you couldn't give accurate context. You specifically said "Relates to castle architecture" and nothing about town walls or audio timing. And my ref shows "les lices" at the castle

Yvonne Gallagher
Ireland
Local time: 07:16
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 11
Notes to answerer
Asker: Anything that requires an explanation or brackets has to be ruled out in an audioguide timed to the second. 'Bailey is a possibiliity but it relates to much to castles specifically whereas here we are talking about essentially the old town 'intramuros'.

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