Glossary entry (derived from question below)
Russian term or phrase:
национальность вносится по желанию матери, отца
English translation:
at the discretion of the parents
Added to glossary by
Milana_R
Aug 1, 2002 19:45
21 yrs ago
42 viewers *
Russian term
United Kingdom
The sports specialists
Native in: English
Works in: Russian to English, English, French to English
национальность вносится по желанию матери, отца
Russian to English
Other
marriage certificate
This is as much a cultural question as a linguistic one.
I'm asking on behalf of a friend who is translating various birth/marriage certificates for a court case tomorrow.
This is part of a marriage certificate I believe.
Firstly - natsionalnost - now I always think this is a slightly tricky one as, in the olden days at least, if i recall correctly if you were Jewish, that used to be shown as your natsionalnost. This would not be your nationality in English. Sometimes I am more inclined to think it translates better as ethnic background (as you would get on an equal opportunities monitoring form in the UK).
Anyway my main question is this business about po zhelaniyu. I assume it means that the nationality of the mother and the father can be entered at their discretion / by their consent. Is that the case?
I'm asking on behalf of a friend who is translating various birth/marriage certificates for a court case tomorrow.
This is part of a marriage certificate I believe.
Firstly - natsionalnost - now I always think this is a slightly tricky one as, in the olden days at least, if i recall correctly if you were Jewish, that used to be shown as your natsionalnost. This would not be your nationality in English. Sometimes I am more inclined to think it translates better as ethnic background (as you would get on an equal opportunities monitoring form in the UK).
Anyway my main question is this business about po zhelaniyu. I assume it means that the nationality of the mother and the father can be entered at their discretion / by their consent. Is that the case?
Proposed translations
(English)
Proposed translations
+2
8 hrs
Selected
at the discretion
You are right about the "discretion"
IMHO it's the best fitting word
Please check that it's really a marriage certificate (which sounds really odd considering that a person is an adult, marrying someone - why rely on the information from the parents) - unless this is a special case and an underage person getting married with the parents' discretion (have to check on the age, but it's someone either under 16 or 17). In this case, I can see how the parents would have to provide some information since they are providing the consent for their underage child to get married.
And if it's NOT a marriage certificate, but a birth certificate, then it makes more sense, but the "discretion" and "nationality" should still suffice.
IMHO it's the best fitting word
Please check that it's really a marriage certificate (which sounds really odd considering that a person is an adult, marrying someone - why rely on the information from the parents) - unless this is a special case and an underage person getting married with the parents' discretion (have to check on the age, but it's someone either under 16 or 17). In this case, I can see how the parents would have to provide some information since they are providing the consent for their underage child to get married.
And if it's NOT a marriage certificate, but a birth certificate, then it makes more sense, but the "discretion" and "nationality" should still suffice.
Peer comment(s):
| agree |
artyan
3 hrs
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thank you
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| agree |
Olga Demiryurek
: Скорее всего речь идёт о Свидетельсьве о рождении,куда по желанию родителей вносится национальность одного из них
1 day 9 hrs
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yes, I'd be surprised if it's not the Birth Certificate
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4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
Comment: "Thanks again to all who made their suggestions. This, or Oleg's "Optional" seem fine to me. If I could split the points I would."
23 mins
Mark Vaintroub
Canada
Canada
Native in Russian
Canada
Fast, cost-effective & friendly service
Native in: Russian 
Works in: English to Russian, Russian to English, Russian
Related KudoZ points
:
679
Just ideas and thoughts...
А что вообще вкладывается в слова "по желанию отца, матери"? Что они выбирают: вносить или не вносить? Или какую национальность вносить (если брак межнационален)? Может быть AT WILL? Или VOLUNTARILY?
+4
31 mins
Jack Doughty
United Kingdom
United Kingdom
Native in English
United Kingdom
Translator since 1953
Native in: English
Works in: Russian to English, German to English, English
Related KudoZ points
:
14525
Nationality may be entered if the mother or father so wishes
I should think that's what it means, but it isn't really clear. I think nationality would be OK, in the UK anyway, where a Scot is liable to think of his nationality as Scottish even if his passport says British. At BBC Monitoring, we used to use nationality for национальность and ethnic group for народность.
Peer comment(s):
| agree |
GaryG
30 mins
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| agree |
nkay
6 hrs
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| agree |
Oleg Pashuk (X)
6 hrs
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| agree |
AYP
7 hrs
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| neutral |
Oleg Osipov
: You are right describing the phrase in question, but the line is unlikely to be in any official document/form.
8 hrs
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+3
7 hrs
А это точно свидетельство о браке?
Если да, то странно, что национальность взрослого человека указывается в таком свидетельстве по желанию его матери или отца. У меня сейчас нет под рукой моего свидетельства, но я более чем уверена, что там нет конкретно такой графы. Разве что в свидетельстве о рождении...
Мне нравится Ваше at the discretion of. Как насчет:
Ethnic nationality (specified at the person's mother's/father's discretion)?
(Но я боюсь, что такой перевод может быть истолкован как разрешение не указывать национальность вообще, если мать или отец сочтут нужным).
Насколько мне известно, это не обязательно должна быть национальность матери или отца.
Успехов!
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Note added at 2002-08-02 05:27:28 (GMT)
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Или так:
\"(upon mother\'s/father\'s choice\"), чтобы передать идею выбора национальности (а не возможности внесения или невнесения) матерью или отцом.
Мне нравится Ваше at the discretion of. Как насчет:
Ethnic nationality (specified at the person's mother's/father's discretion)?
(Но я боюсь, что такой перевод может быть истолкован как разрешение не указывать национальность вообще, если мать или отец сочтут нужным).
Насколько мне известно, это не обязательно должна быть национальность матери или отца.
Успехов!
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Note added at 2002-08-02 05:27:28 (GMT)
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Или так:
\"(upon mother\'s/father\'s choice\"), чтобы передать идею выбора национальности (а не возможности внесения или невнесения) матерью или отцом.
Peer comment(s):
| agree |
Olga Demiryurek
: Я тоже думаю,что ,скорее вскго,это из свидетельства о рождении,именно туда вносится национальность ребёнка - по выбору,или матери ,или отца.
1 hr
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Спасибо!
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| agree |
rapid
8 hrs
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Спасибо!
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| agree |
Milana_R
20 hrs
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Спасибо!
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8 hrs
Oleg Osipov
Russian Federation
Russian Federation
Native in Russian
Russian Federation
The value of the right word
Native in: Russian (Variant: Moscow)
Works in: English to Russian, Russian to English, Spanish to Russian, and 1 more.
Related KudoZ points
:
149
Nationality (optional):
Optional - is the best way to convey the meaning of the original phrase "по желанию".
We believe many of our colleagues will agree.
Thank you,
Stepan
We believe many of our colleagues will agree.
Thank you,
Stepan
Peer comment(s):
| neutral |
Jack Doughty
: Not enough, the parental rights in the matter have to be mentioned somehow.
1 hr
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You are right here. The parental rights ARE sure mentioned in the Certificate. - Kot, BBC World/Wild Service listener since 1973
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10 hrs
Interpreter (X)
Interpreter (X)
Works in: Russian to English, English to Russian, English, and 1 more.
View
Related KudoZ points
:
107
at parents discretion
which should mean that a child of a mixed nationality mariiage will get either her fathers or mothers nationality, by their mutual decision.
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Note added at 2002-08-02 06:01:59 (GMT)
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sorry: father\'s, mother\'s
(never answer KudoZ after 12-hour working day:)
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Note added at 2002-08-02 06:02:44 (GMT)
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sorry: father\'s, mother\'s
(never answer KudoZ after 12-hour working day:)
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Note added at 2002-08-02 06:01:59 (GMT)
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sorry: father\'s, mother\'s
(never answer KudoZ after 12-hour working day:)
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2002-08-02 06:02:44 (GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
sorry: father\'s, mother\'s
(never answer KudoZ after 12-hour working day:)
19 hrs
Ines Burrell
United Kingdom
United Kingdom
Native in Russian
United Kingdom
Good, honest, reliable work & experience
Native in: Latvian 
, Russian
Works in: English to Latvian, Latvian to English, Russian to English
Related KudoZ points
:
75
If desired by mother or father
Po zelaniju in this case means «if desired by mother or father.
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