Glossary entry (derived from question below)
English term or phrase:
mainframe
French translation:
grand système
Added to glossary by
Finn Skovgaard (X)
Mar 14, 2005 09:49
19 yrs ago
2 viewers *
English term
mainframe processing
English to French
Tech/Engineering
IT (Information Technology)
contexte: un service proposé par un prestataire informatique.
autres services proposés: 'mainframe storage', 'server processing', etc
merci d'avance
autres services proposés: 'mainframe storage', 'server processing', etc
merci d'avance
Proposed translations
(French)
Proposed translations
+1
2 hrs
Selected
traitement sur grands systèmes
"Mainframe" is the class of computers that were initially developed in the 1960s. IBM System/360, which later became S/370, S/390, XA, ESA and now z/series is one of the most important. A mainframe *can* act as a server, but so can almost any other computer, so "server" is definitely not the correct translation. "server" is about a specific way of using a computer, not the class of computer. I've worked with mainframe computers as a systems programmer from 1984 to 2003, out of which 12 years with IBM. The last two years were in France, where mainframe is also called "grand systèmes". A simple google search will reveal countless hits. Mainframe computers are not out of date, but their use is limited to computing centres that need intensive treatment of large quantities of date: Airlines/train reservation centres, banks, insurance companies and other companies with large quantities of customers. You would be unable to buy a single train ticket in France without mainframes.
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Note added at 4 hrs 18 mins (2005-03-14 14:07:54 GMT)
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As for anglicism or not, any French professional will understand mainframe and grands systèmes equally well. The documentation is probably in English anyway. However, translating words to French causes fewer problems than translating acronyms like ISDN to RNIS, which effectively works as an obstacle to comprehension. Fortunately, that seems to be a thing of the past, as recent acronyms like ADSL shows.
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Note added at 5 hrs 9 mins (2005-03-14 14:59:30 GMT)
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More resources:
http://www.mainframes.com/whatis.htm - a detailed article looking at the various aspects of a mainframe.
http://www.sdsusa.com/dictionary/glossAZ/m.htm and
http://www.sdsusa.com/dictionary/ :
\"Mainframe: Mainframes used to be defined by their size, and they can still fill a room, cost millions, and support thousands of users. But now a mainframe can also run on a laptop and support two users. So today\'s mainframes are best defined by their operating systems: Unix and Linux, and IBM\'s z/OS, OS/390, MVS, VM, and VSE. Mainframes combine four important features: 1) Reliable single-thread performance, which is essential for reasonable operations against a database. 2) Maximum I/O connectivity, which means mainframes excel at providing for huge disk farms. 3) Maximum I/O bandwidth, so connections between drives and processors have few choke-points. 4) Reliability--mainframes often allow for \"graceful degradation\" and service while the system is running.\"
http://www.hwcs.com/news_events/glossary.asp: \"mainframe - a very large computer that is able to support thousands of users at the same time. Users access the mainframe through a terminal.\"
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=mainframe: Several definitions.
None of them indicates that \"server\" should be an equivalent, but the mainframe concept is not set in stone either. IBM themselves avoid to define \"mainframe\" in their computing glossary online.
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Note added at 6 hrs 54 mins (2005-03-14 16:43:54 GMT)
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Comment to Joelle: If most servers are mainframes or not is besides the point. \"server\" is one particular way of using a mainframe, and web hosting is only a recent way of using a mainframe. When mainframes were invented in the 1960s, there was no web, and the client-server concept had not yet been invented.
If you look at road traffic, you might say that most vehicles are cars, and the only vehicle you have ever driven is a car, so car=vehicle. But you know that is not the case, because there are lorries, buses, motor bikes etc.
Mainframes can be used for all sorts of computing: development, programming, testing, database, time-sharing, interactive use, batch, network hub, word processing, document sharing, hosting other operating systems..., so why do you want to reduce it to \"server\"? It may happen to be its only purpose where you are working, but the reality is more complex.
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Note added at 4 hrs 18 mins (2005-03-14 14:07:54 GMT)
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As for anglicism or not, any French professional will understand mainframe and grands systèmes equally well. The documentation is probably in English anyway. However, translating words to French causes fewer problems than translating acronyms like ISDN to RNIS, which effectively works as an obstacle to comprehension. Fortunately, that seems to be a thing of the past, as recent acronyms like ADSL shows.
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Note added at 5 hrs 9 mins (2005-03-14 14:59:30 GMT)
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More resources:
http://www.mainframes.com/whatis.htm - a detailed article looking at the various aspects of a mainframe.
http://www.sdsusa.com/dictionary/glossAZ/m.htm and
http://www.sdsusa.com/dictionary/ :
\"Mainframe: Mainframes used to be defined by their size, and they can still fill a room, cost millions, and support thousands of users. But now a mainframe can also run on a laptop and support two users. So today\'s mainframes are best defined by their operating systems: Unix and Linux, and IBM\'s z/OS, OS/390, MVS, VM, and VSE. Mainframes combine four important features: 1) Reliable single-thread performance, which is essential for reasonable operations against a database. 2) Maximum I/O connectivity, which means mainframes excel at providing for huge disk farms. 3) Maximum I/O bandwidth, so connections between drives and processors have few choke-points. 4) Reliability--mainframes often allow for \"graceful degradation\" and service while the system is running.\"
http://www.hwcs.com/news_events/glossary.asp: \"mainframe - a very large computer that is able to support thousands of users at the same time. Users access the mainframe through a terminal.\"
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=mainframe: Several definitions.
None of them indicates that \"server\" should be an equivalent, but the mainframe concept is not set in stone either. IBM themselves avoid to define \"mainframe\" in their computing glossary online.
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Note added at 6 hrs 54 mins (2005-03-14 16:43:54 GMT)
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Comment to Joelle: If most servers are mainframes or not is besides the point. \"server\" is one particular way of using a mainframe, and web hosting is only a recent way of using a mainframe. When mainframes were invented in the 1960s, there was no web, and the client-server concept had not yet been invented.
If you look at road traffic, you might say that most vehicles are cars, and the only vehicle you have ever driven is a car, so car=vehicle. But you know that is not the case, because there are lorries, buses, motor bikes etc.
Mainframes can be used for all sorts of computing: development, programming, testing, database, time-sharing, interactive use, batch, network hub, word processing, document sharing, hosting other operating systems..., so why do you want to reduce it to \"server\"? It may happen to be its only purpose where you are working, but the reality is more complex.
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
Comment: "thanks to everyone"
+2
25 mins
Traitement sur l'ordinateur principal
mainframe = ordinateur principal
Peer comment(s):
agree |
Robert Morin
: C'est bien ce dont il s'agit ici et les termes français décrivent exactement la réalité.
3 hrs
|
neutral |
Richard Benham
: Which is "l'ordinateur principal"? In this case it is a question of "a mainframe", not "the mainframe".
3 hrs
|
neutral |
Finn Skovgaard (X)
: Do you know any mainframe professional who uses "ordinateur principal" for mainframe?
3 hrs
|
agree |
Joëlle Bouille
: I don't. We use mainframe or server, which have the same meaning most of the time
5 hrs
|
1 hr
traitement sur mainframe
I know there are forces in France and Francophonia that are very hostile to Anglicisms, but the word "mainframe" is pretty well known and understood in French IT circles. "L'ordinateur principal" is not quite right, as the word does not (any longer) refer to *the* main computer, but to a *type* of computer (essentially, big and powerful, but the development of PCs has large left mainframes behind and made both the word and the object largely obsolete). But it is used in this text, and needs to be translated the best way possible--which may just be by leaving it as is.
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Note added at 1 hr 23 mins (2005-03-14 11:12:56 GMT)
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The suggestions and comments seem to be getting sillier and sillier. So let me make a couple of points:
(1) \"Développement\" in the IT sense is essentially a rip-off of the English word \"development\". It means the process of creating systems. It has nothing to do with \"processing\", which is what systems, once developed, do to data. The closest of equivalent of \"processing\" is \"traitement\".
(2) Not only are \"mainframe\" and \"server\" not even remotely synonymous, but they are actually contrasted in the asker\'s text. So you can\'t assume that \"mainframe\" is just an elegant variation or blunder for \"server\". They are two different things.
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Note added at 1 hr 23 mins (2005-03-14 11:12:56 GMT)
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The suggestions and comments seem to be getting sillier and sillier. So let me make a couple of points:
(1) \"Développement\" in the IT sense is essentially a rip-off of the English word \"development\". It means the process of creating systems. It has nothing to do with \"processing\", which is what systems, once developed, do to data. The closest of equivalent of \"processing\" is \"traitement\".
(2) Not only are \"mainframe\" and \"server\" not even remotely synonymous, but they are actually contrasted in the asker\'s text. So you can\'t assume that \"mainframe\" is just an elegant variation or blunder for \"server\". They are two different things.
Peer comment(s):
agree |
Finn Skovgaard (X)
: I agree with all your comments and with "mainframe" in the sense that mainframe is used in France in practice, but so is "grand systèmes" - see my comments/The justification for keeping the anglicism is as always that it's clear what we're talking about.
1 hr
|
Thanks Finn. I was not willing to venture a "homegrown" French translation of "mainframe", but your suggestion is fine.//My point exactly! Thanks for the support!
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agree |
Karim Oualladi
: I asked a old DSI, development isn't processing and mainframe is well known by professionals
2 hrs
|
Thanks.
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disagree |
Robert Morin
: Where does this whole discussion on «development» come from? As for the anglicism, many usual French equivalents exist for «mainframe» and keeping the English is absolutely unjustified
2 hrs
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(1) It refers to two answers since deleted. (2) The existence of *many* French equivalents would be a strong argument for "keeping" the English, which in any case needs no more justification than our "keeping" words like "pot-pourri" or "pétanque".
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disagree |
GILLES MEUNIER
: exemple d'anglicisme
7 days
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Well duh!?! A correct Anglicism is beter than an incorrect Gallicism any day.
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11 mins
traitement par / sur serveur
Un mainframe est en fait un serveur ...
Il n'y a, à ma connaissance, pas de différence majeure.
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Note added at 1 hr 35 mins (2005-03-14 11:24:55 GMT)
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Concernant la réponse d\'Ikaruss :
\"Développement sur mainframe\" (précisément mon boulot depuis maintenant 7 ans) se réfère à de la programmation proprement dite.
\"Server OR Mainframe processing\" signifie bel et bien \"traitement sur serveur\" (on dira le plus souvent \"côté serveur\") : dans le cadre du développement de sites web, on distingue les langages de script qui s\'exécutent sur le poste client (comme Javascript) de ceux qui s\'exécutent sur le serveur (comme PHP). Un FAI (fournisseur d\'Accès Internet) qui fournit la possibilité de \"traitements côté serveur\" permet d\'utiliser ces languages de scripts qui s\'exécutent, sont TRAITES sur le serveur (même s\'ils ont été DEVELOPPES SUR LE PC du programmeur qui a développé le site web, avant d\'être uploadés sur le serveur pour exécution).
Il n'y a, à ma connaissance, pas de différence majeure.
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Note added at 1 hr 35 mins (2005-03-14 11:24:55 GMT)
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Concernant la réponse d\'Ikaruss :
\"Développement sur mainframe\" (précisément mon boulot depuis maintenant 7 ans) se réfère à de la programmation proprement dite.
\"Server OR Mainframe processing\" signifie bel et bien \"traitement sur serveur\" (on dira le plus souvent \"côté serveur\") : dans le cadre du développement de sites web, on distingue les langages de script qui s\'exécutent sur le poste client (comme Javascript) de ceux qui s\'exécutent sur le serveur (comme PHP). Un FAI (fournisseur d\'Accès Internet) qui fournit la possibilité de \"traitements côté serveur\" permet d\'utiliser ces languages de scripts qui s\'exécutent, sont TRAITES sur le serveur (même s\'ils ont été DEVELOPPES SUR LE PC du programmeur qui a développé le site web, avant d\'être uploadés sur le serveur pour exécution).
Peer comment(s):
agree |
Platary (X)
: Oui, faut pas chipoter !
12 mins
|
disagree |
Richard Benham
: [...]//I could turn one of my PCs into a server tomorrow, but it wouldn't make it a mainframe. Can you explain why the source text distinguishes between "mainframe processing" and "sever processing"?
51 mins
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Mainframe is the old word for what is now commonly named a server. I work everyday on this type of machine so I think I know what it is ...
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agree |
Proelec
: OK. Il y a bien des matériels obsolètes......
53 mins
|
disagree |
Finn Skovgaard (X)
: "server" refers to a particular way of using any type of computer, not particularly a mainframe. The mainframes you use may be used like that, but that does not mean that server=mainframe, which is definitely not the case/cont'd under my own suggestion-->
2 hrs
|
I agree totally but most of the time servers are mainframes ... and as for web hosting, do you think a personal computer could act as a serious web server ?
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neutral |
Robert Morin
: La remarque de Finn s'applique également à «mainframe»: il ne s'agit pas ici d'un «type» gros ordinateur mais bien de la façon dont il est utilisé dans une configuration (comme ordinateur principal).
4 hrs
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