May 24, 2023 22:56
12 mos ago
26 viewers *
Spanish term
Argentina
Multilingual Experts
Native in: English (Variants: UK, US, Canadian) 
Works in: English, Spanish to English, English to Spanish, and 12 more.
pata de palo que un ciego le muestra a otro ciego
Spanish to English
Art/Literary
Idioms / Maxims / Sayings
I am not sure if this is a "real" expression of one that this Argentine writer makes up in a text about a sculptor discovering a the cardboard boxes she would work with for much of her career.
Vuelve a su departamento con una caja de cartón corrugado bajo el brazo. El ingenio poético hace lo demás. El ingenio bien entendido, y no como pata de palo que un ciego le muestra a otro ciego. Desde 1965, trabaja directamente con cajas de cartón,
If she makes it up, the English translation:
"Wit in the good sense, not like a peg leg one blindman shows another" seems sort of lame...
Thanks
Vuelve a su departamento con una caja de cartón corrugado bajo el brazo. El ingenio poético hace lo demás. El ingenio bien entendido, y no como pata de palo que un ciego le muestra a otro ciego. Desde 1965, trabaja directamente con cajas de cartón,
If she makes it up, the English translation:
"Wit in the good sense, not like a peg leg one blindman shows another" seems sort of lame...
Thanks
Proposed translations
16 hrs
Domini Lucas
United Kingdom
United Kingdom
Native in English
Works in field
United Kingdom
Academic and Literary Translator
Native in: English (Variant: British)
Works in: Spanish to English, Greek to English
Related KudoZ points
:
8
Selected
... the blind man who says he sees as he waves his wooden leg
On the off chance that my hunch in my discussion entry is correct, here is a very loose badly, v rushed translation of what I think this might mean (confidence level low!):
...humour/wit that is well/easily understood. Not the kind assumed/represented by the story of the blind man who says he sees as he waves his wooden leg.
As I said, it is loose and a bit of a punt as I am not sure if an equivalent idiom exists in Spanish.
The first link below is the same as in my discussion entry as it explains the meaning of the idiom.
The second link speaks of the origin of the expression, and it begins "I see" is an expression commonly used in a humorous context. ... It seems the original was a poem and, further down the article, it is described as a nonsense poem/nonsense verse/wellerism. Which, presumably, fits with it not been easily understood.
It continues It may sound like a jocular expression, but it has a serious meaning. Its literal meaning of seeing something can be misleading. ... The blind man can't see, so he cannot see anything. Nevertheless, he can wave his wooden leg to show that he has realized something. ... The implication is that you can't see anything, but it doesn't make it a lie. The origin is unclear, but it is believed the the phrase originates from an old proverb.
If it is true that the origin is indeed an old proverb, might it be possible that the same proverb either existed in Spanish or that there is something similar?
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Note added at 16 hrs (2023-05-25 15:50:35 GMT)
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Also https://answerdata.org/origin-of-i-see-said-the-blind-man-as... which shows that variations on the phrase have been documented in many folklore books , however it doesn't refer to Spain/Spanish specifically.
It also cites a wikipedia article https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wellerism that explains what Wellerisms are:
Wellerisms, named after sayings of Sam Weller in Charles Dickens's novel The Pickwick Papers, make fun of established clichés and proverbs by showing that they are wrong in certain situations, often when taken literally.[1] In this sense, Wellerisms that include proverbs are a type of anti-proverb. Typically a Wellerism consists of three parts: a proverb or saying, a speaker, and an often humorously literal explanation."
The answerdata
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Note added at 16 hrs (2023-05-25 15:51:33 GMT)
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Ignore i>The answer data - typo! I can't see a way to preview added notes - sorry!
...humour/wit that is well/easily understood. Not the kind assumed/represented by the story of the blind man who says he sees as he waves his wooden leg.
As I said, it is loose and a bit of a punt as I am not sure if an equivalent idiom exists in Spanish.
The first link below is the same as in my discussion entry as it explains the meaning of the idiom.
The second link speaks of the origin of the expression, and it begins "I see" is an expression commonly used in a humorous context. ... It seems the original was a poem and, further down the article, it is described as a nonsense poem/nonsense verse/wellerism. Which, presumably, fits with it not been easily understood.
It continues It may sound like a jocular expression, but it has a serious meaning. Its literal meaning of seeing something can be misleading. ... The blind man can't see, so he cannot see anything. Nevertheless, he can wave his wooden leg to show that he has realized something. ... The implication is that you can't see anything, but it doesn't make it a lie. The origin is unclear, but it is believed the the phrase originates from an old proverb.
If it is true that the origin is indeed an old proverb, might it be possible that the same proverb either existed in Spanish or that there is something similar?
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 16 hrs (2023-05-25 15:50:35 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
Also https://answerdata.org/origin-of-i-see-said-the-blind-man-as... which shows that variations on the phrase have been documented in many folklore books , however it doesn't refer to Spain/Spanish specifically.
It also cites a wikipedia article https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wellerism that explains what Wellerisms are:
Wellerisms, named after sayings of Sam Weller in Charles Dickens's novel The Pickwick Papers, make fun of established clichés and proverbs by showing that they are wrong in certain situations, often when taken literally.[1] In this sense, Wellerisms that include proverbs are a type of anti-proverb. Typically a Wellerism consists of three parts: a proverb or saying, a speaker, and an often humorously literal explanation."
The answerdata
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Note added at 16 hrs (2023-05-25 15:51:33 GMT)
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Ignore i>The answer data - typo! I can't see a way to preview added notes - sorry!
Reference:
https://grammarhow.com/i-see-said-the-blind-man-as-he-waved-his-wooden-leg-meaning-origin/
https://www.starlanguageblog.com/origin-of-i-see-said-the-blind-man-as-he-waved-his-wooden-leg/
Peer comment(s):
| neutral |
philgoddard
: I just don't think people will understand this.
1 hr
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and it is a dated expression, which is partly why my confidence level is low. I´m hoping it might at least be of value to Wendy in terms of possible meaning behind it if it equates to the Spanish expression. Perhaps I should have kept it in the discussion
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4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
Comment: "I actually adjusted this and used it in my translation. I think the expressions in both languages are obscure.
Thanks!"
42 mins
Muriel Vasconcellos
United States
United States
Native in English
United States
Each translation a gem!
Native in: English (Variant: US)
Works in: Spanish to English, Portuguese to English
Related KudoZ points
:
80
not as just a jumble of boxes that a sightless man would see it
That's the idea
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Note added at 4 hrs (2023-05-25 03:48:35 GMT)
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Now:
"unenlightened"
"not as just a jumble of voxes that an unenlightened man see it"
I think that is the real tone and intent of the sentence.
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Note added at 4 hrs (2023-05-25 03:48:51 GMT)
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boxes
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Note added at 4 hrs (2023-05-25 03:49:22 GMT)
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"not as just a jumble of voxes that an unenlightened man see it"
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Note added at 4 hrs (2023-05-25 03:48:35 GMT)
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Now:
"unenlightened"
"not as just a jumble of voxes that an unenlightened man see it"
I think that is the real tone and intent of the sentence.
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 4 hrs (2023-05-25 03:48:51 GMT)
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boxes
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Note added at 4 hrs (2023-05-25 03:49:22 GMT)
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"not as just a jumble of voxes that an unenlightened man see it"
Peer comment(s):
| neutral |
philgoddard
: I'm not going to disagree with this as it's only a 2, but it doesn't make grammatical sense.
12 hrs
|
2 days 23 hrs
Jesica Frölich
Argentina
Argentina
Native in Spanish
Argentina
Audiovisual & technical translations
Native in: Spanish (Variant: Latin American)
Works in: English to Spanish, Spanish to English, Spanish
not like a blind leading the blind
As we don't have the full knowledge of the character I'll try to explain what that phrase could mean as a Spanish native speaker (Argentinian) given the context you provided.
Ingenioso acoording to the RAE: Facultad del ser humano para discurrir o inventar con prontitud y facilidad.
Now, The expression "pata de palo" is used as a metaphor to refer to something that is useless or inefficient. In this case, it is mentioned that well-understood ingenuity is not like a wooden leg that one blind person shows to another blind person.
This metaphor implies that proper ingenuity is valuable and can guide someone in the pursuit of creative solutions or higher skills. In contrast, the wooden leg is a symbol of faulty assistance or guidance that is not helpful, as a blind person cannot see the wooden leg and it would not be of use for walking.
Hope this explanation helps you to put the phrase in context.
Ingenioso acoording to the RAE: Facultad del ser humano para discurrir o inventar con prontitud y facilidad.
Now, The expression "pata de palo" is used as a metaphor to refer to something that is useless or inefficient. In this case, it is mentioned that well-understood ingenuity is not like a wooden leg that one blind person shows to another blind person.
This metaphor implies that proper ingenuity is valuable and can guide someone in the pursuit of creative solutions or higher skills. In contrast, the wooden leg is a symbol of faulty assistance or guidance that is not helpful, as a blind person cannot see the wooden leg and it would not be of use for walking.
Hope this explanation helps you to put the phrase in context.
Reference:
Discussion
You have a literal translation for a starting point.
So what are your own ideas? What have you considered? What have you rejected? What is the result of your own lateral thinking and your experience with these kind of Argentinian texts?
The meaning of “I see said the blind man as he waved his wooden leg” is that a person has understood or comprehended something, but they can’t entirely do so. A “blind man” isn’t able to “see,” so when he says “I see,” it’s implying that he comprehends something without the ability to know what he’s “seeing”.
However, I see you're still using "wit" as a translation for "ingenio".
This is a mistake in my opinion, and I feel you chose the wrong answer in your previous question. It was posted by a non-native speaker, and got three disagrees and a neutral:
http://www.proz.com/kudoz/spanish-to-english/idioms-maxims-s...
Wit used to mean ingenuity, but now it means humour.
Otherwise normally you'd expect two blind people to be discussing a wooden stick rather than a wooden leg. But that's in English of course. I have to confess that I don't know if this exists in Spanish. Plus there's the PC question, which @Muriel, I'm assuming you're also covering with sightless?
I knew someone (long gone now) who always use to say "I see said the blind man as he waved his wooden leg" as a witticism, so it does have a witty connotation in my mind.
Is it possible to have a little more context? Or an extra bit of the final sentence?