Muriel Vasconcellos Sep 6, 2018:

@Charles Very good point!
It's difficult to make a firm rule because there are too many exceptions.

Charles Davis Sep 6, 2018:

@Neil Ambiguity of number is one of the criteria Quirk at al. discuss (17.109 (i)):

"One difference between branch supervisor and branches supervisor is that the singular is more vague and may be interpreted as 'supervisor of a branch or branches', whereas the plural can be interpreted only as 'supervisor of several branches' and thus excludes the ambiguity of number".

Their main point on this is "institutionalization". At the end of the previous section, they say:

"The choice of premodifying nouns in the plural rather than the singular may be attributed to a number of factors, but predominantly to the fact that an entity has been institutionalized in plural form."

And they also say that it happens much more in British English than in American English, where the plural attributive construction is relatively rare. "Institutionalization", in their terminology, would include the specialist usage you mentioned, Muriel: for that group of speakers, the plural has been institutionalized.

I realise grammar books aren't everyone's cup of tea, but this one is really magisterial. At least in my opinion.

neilmac Sep 6, 2018:

However… On the other hand, I've just translated the phrase "utilizando la opción de filtros" as "using the filters option" in a software manual, because in this case there are several filters to choose from. Basically, there is no real hard and fast rule and I tend to take each case as it crops up.

Muriel Vasconcellos Sep 6, 2018:

When to put it behind the second noun... ...depends entirely on the context. If 'bouy' is "new information" in your text, you need to expand the phrase and put it at the end because in clear communication the newest information comes at the end where people can grasp and remember it most easily. Putting it behind another noun "buries it."
On the other hand, if you're writing for an audience of specialists and they traditionally put it behind the noun, you don't need to expand it. This is a subject I addressed extensively in my doctoral thesis and am also covering in a book I'm writing.
If you do use a plural noun to modify another noun, it is almost always singularized. I call it "the teethbrush" rule. I don't know where it's found in the grammar books, but your key terms to look up would be 'noun modifiers' or 'attributive nouns'. Once you hear the word 'teethbrush', the rule sticks in your mind.
All that said, one of my main clients likes to keep the final 's' if it's a 2-word phrase modifying the noun, as in 'health services management'. In this case, the 's' is important to the meaning; leaving it out causes confusion: 'health service management' is a different idea.

Thomas Walker Sep 5, 2018:

@Lorenzo I think Lorenzo's suggestion is worthy of consideration - recast the phrase as "assignment of buoys", thus avoiding the awkward non-standard pluralization of the noun being used as an adjective, while keeping "buoys" in the plural, as your client seems to want.

Charles Davis Sep 5, 2018:

Grammar The most complete and authoritative grammar of the English language is A Comprehensive Grammar of the English Language by Quirk, Greenbaum, Leech & Svartvik (1985). The point that concerns you (plural attributive nouns) is discussed in sections 17.108–109, pp. 1333–1335. A kind person has uploaded the whole book here; see slides 673–674:
https://www.slideshare.net/ivana14jovanovic/a-comprehensive-...

Lorenzo Oliveira Negro Sep 5, 2018:

Assignment of buoys I would simply say ´Assignment of buoys´ probably...

neilmac Sep 5, 2018:

So, if there are several "sondeos" (soundings?) and it is very important to stress that point, then fair enough, your client can use "soundings information" if they feel they must. However, the risk is that they may then use the plural adjective across the board every time it appears, when it's not always necessary.

neilmac Sep 5, 2018:

Adjective agreement There is no adjective+noun agreement (concordancia) per se in English. I've just translated the phrase "datos de cláusulas" -> "clause data" (I'd actually prefer "clause details", but the client prefers "data" for everything). We only normally use the plural adjective if it is indispensable to stress the plurality, which is usually simply understood.

neilmac Sep 5, 2018:

NB: Not "bouy".... It's "buoy" (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buoy).

Roisin Gough (asker) Sep 5, 2018:

Excellent Isamar, thanks a million for your help!!!

Isamar Sep 5, 2018:

You could inform your client of the grammatical rule of using the singular for adjectives "red houses" (casas rojas), as well as for nouns used as adjectives unless, as I mentioned before, it creates confusion. If you say "a plastic factory" it sounds as if the factory itself is made of plastic, but by saying "a plastics factory" the confusion is avoided by adding the s and the meaning becomes clear; you are talking about a factory that produces items made of plastic. Hope this helps!

Roisin Gough (asker) Sep 5, 2018:

Muy buen ejemplo gracias, lo usaré! y en el caso de "asignación de boyas" / "bouy allocation" como justifico el uso del singular aquí?

Isamar Sep 5, 2018:

Perhaps you could use "echo-sounding information" and back it up with the results of that when you google it, as opposed to nothing at all if you make sounding plural :)

Roisin Gough (asker) Sep 5, 2018:

Hi Isamar Thanks for the reply, in this case it's a type of echo-sounding device used at sea, but I agree that in general nouns used as adjectives should be singular, now I just have to figure out a good example to explain this to my client... any ideas?

Isamar Sep 5, 2018:

Hi Roisin... if you google "sounding information" you get over 30,000 results, compared to 315 if you google "soundings information". You could, however, use "survey information" and avoid the problem, assuming that survey is a correct translation in the context you are working on. Nouns used as adjectives should be in the singular unless this creates confusion, such as in cases like "a customs official", "a news programme", "a plastics factory", etc.