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sino tiene objeción en
de mí en esposo
Dec 29, 2016 01:08
7 yrs ago
Spanish term

\"Nada de lo que fuiste, fuiste y fuimos a no ser habitantes de tu infierno\"

Spanish to English Art/Literary Poetry & Literature Poetry
"Nada de lo que fuiste, fuiste y fuimos a no ser habitantes de tu infierno"
Poema "Algo sobre la muerte del mayor Sabines" de Jaime Sabines.

Esa última parte: "fuimos a no ser habitantes de tu infierno." No entiendo esa parte. ¿Qué significa y cómo la puedo traducir al inglés?
Proposed translations (English)
3 +1 For all of us, all that remained was your hell that we were all living through
3 +4 None of what you were we were as well / Except that we were living in your hell
3 +2 "You and we were nothing of what you were, as we had no part in your (own private) hell"
3 +1 Nothing of what was, of what was and of what we were, lay outside your (living) hell
3 Nothing of what you were you were, we were/ aside from being the dwellers in your hell.

Discussion

Charles Davis Jan 2, 2017:
The only relevance (no relevance at all really) was the subject of translating poetry and the fact that I'd just seen the film and it was fresh in my mind; I'm a big fan of Jarmusch. I'm glad we had the follow-up, because I certainly didn't mean it's a waste of time trying to translate poetry. Even if the result seems to fall short, it's a wonderful way of really getting immersed in the original poetry and thinking about every little detail.
Carol Gullidge Jan 2, 2017:
I'm glad you cleared that up Charles! Your earlier posting rather led me to believe that you were perhaps rather scathing about the whole process, and I was trying to figure out its relevance to this particular KudoZ question!
Charles Davis Jan 2, 2017:
That's been my experience too The money I've made from translating poetry, when I've done so for money, has never even remotely reflected the time and effort, but of course I didn't expect it to. When I have accepted this sort of job (four times in all that I can remember), I have never regretted it for a moment. One of the things that makes it so unprofitable and also so enjoyable (to me) is that you have to give it lots and lots of time; not only the time it takes to come up with a first draft but above all time to leave it, come back to it, tinker, leave it again, and so on.
Carol Gullidge Jan 2, 2017:
!t is indeed impossible to get an exact equivalent Poetry translation is full of sacrifices (translation loss of various types), equivalents and compensation - more so than any other type of literary translation, to the extent that one wonders at times what the purpose of the translation is... But be that as it may, a lot depends on the source poem; some poetry is more "translatable". I once translated a set of poems where - by dint of a (disproportionately) huge amount of hard work - the end result/effect (including a rhyming and metric scheme) was not too far from the original, and the author (an actor and film producer) said he "wouldn't change a word"! But it seems it must actually be easier to write the original source poem - because the constraints are all set by the writer himself and as such are flexible - than it is to translate poetry whilst sticking to the constraints set by the source text. Hardly surprising, then, that the best you can hope for is an approximation (the veil effect?), and that even this comes at a huge price in terms of time and effort. The main thing is that you provide what the outsourcer is looking for and that the end result is pleasing, even if not a word-for-word translation...
Charles Davis Jan 2, 2017:
Poetry in translation I can't resist sharing a line from Jim Jarmusch's latest film Paterson, which I saw just before Christmas:

"Reading poetry in translation is like taking a shower with a raincoat on."

It's been said before in other ways, including:

"Reading poetry in translation is like kissing through a veil" (Chaim Nachman Bialik)
"Reading poetry in translation is like looking at embroidery from the back" (unidentified)

Proposed translations

+1
15 hrs
Selected

For all of us, all that remained was your hell that we were all living through

I think this most probably needs to be taken along with the preceding line:

"y queremos tenerte aunque sea enfermo."

Literally, I think the meaning is fairly straightforward:

We wanted to hang on to you even though you were ill.
Nothing of what you were - you were and we were -
other than inhabitants of your hell.


Further simplified: ... nothing of what every one of us was

other than inhabitants of your hell ...

I think the whole stanza can be further interpreted as "We wanted to hang on to what was left of you even though this now constituted nothing more than the hell that you and the rest of us were all going through".


------
There is no comma after "fuimos" in the version I read, but in any case, I feel that it would be fairly optional here. (If I were the poet, I would hesitate about including it, and when in doubt, omit!)

I guess that as this is a PRO question, you are being remunerated for the translation, in which case I would not recommend supplying a ready-made translation. I frequently get asked to translate poetry on a professional basis, and - quite apart from potential issues regarding copyright - I would be mortified to use somebody else's translation - albeit a very small contribution - and to take the credit for it, potentially quite publicly! So if ever I need to consult KudoZ when translating poetry, I always make it clear that I'm only looking for clues regarding the interpretation, and NOT a lovely ready-made rhyming couplet!
But for a definitive interpretation/explanation, I find that nothing beats getting this from the horse's mouth - i.e., directly from the poet himself or herself, in his own native language. But since the poet in this case is no longer living, is there no living expert on Mexican poetry who can supply an explanation, just to be on the safe side?


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Note added at 15 hrs (2016-12-29 16:31:59 GMT)
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or, preferably, "For each of us, all that remained was..."

(rather too many "all"s!)
Peer comment(s):
agree Beatriz Ramírez de Haro
2 hrs
thanks Beatriz!
Something went wrong...
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "Gracias!"
+2
10 mins
Spanish term (edited): \\\"Nada de lo que fuiste, fuiste y fuimos a no ser habitantes de tu infierno\\\"

"You and we were nothing of what you were, as we had no part in your (own private) hell"

"Nada de lo que fuiste, fuiste y fuimos a no ser habitantes de tu infierno"

"You and we were nothing of what you were, as we had no part in your (private) hell"

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 13 mins (2016-12-29 01:22:04 GMT)
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this is open to a lot of renderings, so let's see what others have to say

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Note added at 15 mins (2016-12-29 01:23:33 GMT)
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poetry is always a challenge

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Note added at 27 mins (2016-12-29 01:36:24 GMT)
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"You and I (poetic licence here) were never part of what you were, as we never entered into/lived your (own) private hell"

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Note added at 31 mins (2016-12-29 01:39:59 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

http://www.poemas.de/algo-sobre-la-muerte-del-mayor-sabines/

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Note added at 43 mins (2016-12-29 01:51:29 GMT)
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doesn't rhyme but don't think that's the point
Peer comment(s):
agree franglish : "You and we were nothing of what you were, unless it be dwellers in/of your own private hell." My reading of 'infierno'here is the dying process; 'a no ser', not 'al no ser'. //So, I agree with the first part but not with your interpretation of the rest.
8 hrs
agree jude dabo : ok
11 hrs
Something went wrong...
+1
6 hrs

Nothing of what was, of what was and of what we were, lay outside your (living) hell

With some poetic licence...
I think the repetition is significant
Peer comment(s):
agree Wendy Penn (X)
5 hrs
Thanks Wendy!
Something went wrong...
+4
8 hrs

None of what you were we were as well / Except that we were living in your hell

A iambic rhyming couplet, though semi-accidental. I am not at all sure I have grasped all the subtleties of what he is expressing here, but I am pretty confident about the meaning of "a no ser", which I think is the crux.

To put it another way, fairly literally: Of what you were, there is nothing that both you and we were, except being inhabitants of your hell. The only thing we shared with you was living in your hell. Watching you die, we were in that hell as well.

These are the last two lines of a poem by Sabines addressed to his father (I presume that is the "mayor Sabines") who has died (of cancer). The first part says that all the dead person's things are still there, "Te sobrevive todo". The line before these two is "y queremos tenerte aunque sea enfermo". Then this:

"Nada de lo que fuiste, fuiste y fuimos,
a no ser habitantes de tu infierno"

I don't know whether the comma after "fuimos" was intended by the poet, but I think it was; it is present in his Antología poética, published by FCE, which is probably an authoritative text:
https://books.google.es/books?id=TVBVo594R50C&pg=PR133&lpg=P...

In any case, there is a natural pause at the end of the line. So I don't think it's "fuimos a no ser", and to me it doesn't make any sense read like that. I think it's "No fuiste y fuimos nada de lo que fuiste, a no ser...".

"A no ser is used like this in a passage from a classic of Mexican literature, El llano en llamas by Juan Rulfo:

"No, el Llano no es cosa que sirva. No hay ni conejos ni pájaros. No hay nada. A no ser unos cuantos huizaches trepeleques y una que otra manchita de zacate con las hojas enroscadas; a no ser eso, no hay nada."
https://books.google.es/books?id=RH9UUph_rHgC&pg=PA8&lpg=PA8...

I wonder also whether there is a play on "fuiste": whether "Nada de lo que fuiste, fuiste", might mean that when dying, living in that hell, his father was not what he had been. My suggestion does not reflect that possibility. But I am not sure about it anyway.
Peer comment(s):
agree Marie Wilson : I also see "a no ser..." as being in your hell.
15 mins
Thanks, Marie!
agree Beatriz Ramírez de Haro : Exacto, compartieron su infierno.
9 hrs
Gracias, Bea :)
agree franglish : As you say, he wasn't himself any longer nor were those watching his agony. All that remained was a sharing of his hell.
11 hrs
Thanks, franglish :)
agree Thomas Walker : I spent 10 minutes with the poem before reading answers already submitted - agree with your interpretation, Charles. I'm not familiar with this poet, so I'm not sure how to come down on stylistic issues, but I think you're on the right track.
1 day 15 hrs
Thanks a lot, Tom! Happy New Year :)
Something went wrong...
9 hrs

Nothing of what you were you were, we were/ aside from being the dwellers in your hell.

The first line is confusing, although I believe it means "neither you or we were what you were", which is still mystifying.
I am certain the second line means "aside from/except", i.e.: The only thing did for sure is inhabit your hell.

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Note added at 10 hrs (2016-12-29 11:12:28 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Correction: It should say "The only thing we did for sure is inhabit your hell."
Peer comment(s):
neutral Charles Davis : I agree about "a no ser". The first line is confusing, but I think it must mean there is nothing of what you were that both you and we were (that you were and we were as well). In other words, that was the only part of it that we could share with you.
28 mins
That sounds right. I left the vagueness in my version. We must bear in mind this sonnet is part of a much longer poem where he deals with his father's death and agony: http://www.poemas.de/algo-sobre-la-muerte-del-mayor-sabines/
Something went wrong...
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