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in the right-wing wilderness grumble about over campfires.
Jun 8, 2014 05:17
9 yrs ago
English term

finger is right between your eyes

English Art/Literary Idioms / Maxims / Sayings Narration, dialogue, interview
This phrase appears in an interview transcript of a person from Israel.

It could be a literal translation into English of an original Arabic or Israeli phrase, but could also be an idiom in English itself.
Responses
4 Sensation of tingling and vulnerability
4 +2 as if shot right between the eyes
4 was totally shocked

Discussion

Agneta Pallinder Jun 9, 2014:
Reading the transcript (13:52 8 Jun) I thought it might mean the finger of destiny or fate, this time it is pointing "right between your eyes", this time it is you it is happening to, it is your daughter in the morgue. Echoes in my mind of Omar Khayyam "the moving finger writes and having writ moves on" probably.
Piyush Ojha Jun 9, 2014:
Here is a curious sentence from an article by a Rabbi on the significance of different parts of the body in Judaism:

"The center of the head is the mid-brain,[14] the controller of the body. One can visualize where this area is located by placing a finger behind the ear and another finger between the eyes. The imaginary point where these two ‘lines’ cross, is the mid-brain. A bullet that pierces this area will surely kill the person."

http://www.betemunah.org/body.html#_Toc383717341

Perhaps "finger between the eyes" means being confronted by death, in this case, not his own but his daughter's.
Arabic & More Jun 9, 2014:
"As plain as the nose on your face"...this is the expression I was trying to think of yesterday. Again, though, it's just a guess, and I do not speak Hebrew.
Balasubramaniam L. (asker) Jun 8, 2014:
@Thayenga Also, in the video, he is not pointing his finger at his own eyes while saying this, he is just jabbing the air with his finger as if wanting to emphasise his point.
Balasubramaniam L. (asker) Jun 8, 2014:
@Thayenga I am sorry for the sketchy context. I thought this would be a straightforward case of an Arabic, Israeli, or English idiom of which I was not aware. Here is further context - this is a video about conflict management strategies and records case studies of forgiveness and accommodation of the enemy. It is not overtly religious, so I don't think religious symbolism in involved here. The person was able to forgive and forget his tragedy, though he felt vengeful in the beginning, and he is relating how or why he did this. I personally think he got his gestures and idioms mixed up, as it often happens in conversation, especially in a language that is not your mother-tongue, and all that he wanted to convey was that the sight at the morgue was arresting, and it stunned him. Unless, of course, it is some common and localized phrase/gesture in that part of the globe, which indicates this meaning.
Arabic & More Jun 8, 2014:
Then I definitely think you should ask someone who speaks Hebrew.
Thayenga Jun 8, 2014:
@ Balasubramaniam L. This and all the other "piece-by-piece" info was much needed at the beginning when you posted your question.
So my question is, is this a religious context? Is it related to any war? Did that person feel no grief at all, taking it as something "given" by the Above? Why would someone point their finger at their own forehead/between the eyes? Is that of any symbolic meaning in that culture/religion?
All this info is needed in order to give the correct - and plausible - answer. ;)
Balasubramaniam L. (asker) Jun 8, 2014:
@Amel The person saying this is an Israeli.
Arabic & More Jun 8, 2014:
Do you know if the person on the tape was Palestinian or Israeli?

You might get different suggestions if you post this on the Arabic or Hebrew areas of Kudoz.

It is hard to guess at the meaning of an idiom that has been translated so literally to English. It could mean something totally different than how it sounds. Although I haven't personally heard this expression, I feel that it might mean something like "it's impossible to ignore what's so blatantly obvious in front of you." This is just a guess, however.
Balasubramaniam L. (asker) Jun 8, 2014:
@Thayenga It is in fact much later. The narration refers to an event which occurred a long time ago, may be years ago. So this is not the immediate description of currently occurring events. It is a recollection from memory.
Balasubramaniam L. (asker) Jun 8, 2014:
@MCristy I listened to the audio and also watched the visual. The speaker clearly says "finger", and he jabs the air with his forefinger, keeping the other fingers of his hand closed and held together at the palm. So the gesture is not what Thayenga is describing, of shooting with/pointing a gun at one's head or between the eyes. It is more like pointing at something, to convey "smack on target" kind of meaning.
Cristina Crişan Jun 8, 2014:
figure? It's a transcript, it might be a mistake.
Thayenga Jun 8, 2014:
@ Balasubramaniam L. This would imply that the end of his quest was all that mattered with relief being the predominant emotion here.
For any parent, actually every parent, who had just lost a child the predominant emotion is despair, a pain beyond control. That s/he has reached the end of her/his quest might dawn on them later on. Much later.
Balasubramaniam L. (asker) Jun 8, 2014:
I think it means something like... ..."and there was the end of my quest right in front of my eyes". The finger could be indicative of drawing attention of the person to the "end of his quest". Do you think this is a probable meaning of this phrase? One thing seems to be clear from this discussion, that "finger between the eyes" is not an idiomatic expression in English at least. I am not sure how near the mark Piyush's long shot regarding hamsa is and whether that is what is meant by this phrase.
Balasubramaniam L. (asker) Jun 8, 2014:
@Gallagy They said there was a bombing on ---- street.

My wife said that someone saw [name of the girl] going down the street and she’s worried.

You find yourself running in the streets,
Going from hospital to hospital,
From police station to police station.

Later that night,
You find yourself in the morgue.

And the finger is right between your eyes.

And you see this sight,
which you will never be able to forget
for the rest of your life.
Thayenga Jun 8, 2014:
@ DB Finch Well, this is not about religion. This is about the result of something negative/bad someone did to that daughter. In my discussion entry "evil" stands for bad/negative/mean, etc. The word "evil" doesn't pertain to religios matters only. ;)
In fact, the gesture itself has absolutely nothing to do with religion, but instead with the emotional state of mind of a human being faced with tragedy.
B D Finch Jun 8, 2014:
@airmail & Thayenga Only if one believes in the (religious) concept of evil. Some of us don't. There is also the problem that those who do believe in it tend to consider their own bombs justified and those of their enemies "evil".
Thayenga Jun 8, 2014:
@ airmailrpl Of course what had happened was evil.

However, the scene in question reflects "only" the results (present) of the evil that has already happened in some other place (past).
The point is, this phrase emphasizes the desire to be dead; in this case being shot to death or shooting himself to death.
airmailrpl Jun 8, 2014:
You don't consider.. >Neither the daughter nor the father are in the presence of evil.
You don't consider someone inocent person being blown up by a bomb as the embodiment of the presence of Pure Evil??
Yvonne Gallagher Jun 8, 2014:
Full Context
the sentences before and after this snippet would help determine meaning more precisely. You say "in his narration" but what does it actually say?
Thayenga Jun 8, 2014:
This has nothing to do with Hamsa. Neither the daughter nor the father are in the presence of evil. ;)
Piyush Ojha Jun 8, 2014:
@Balasubramaniam A long shot at this stage; I wonder if this is related to hamsa ( http://www.myjewishlearning.com/beliefs/Issues/Magic_and_the... ).

It might mean something like being in the presence of evil (that killed his daughter).
Thayenga Jun 8, 2014:
Temple or between the eyes Either one means the exact same thing. ;)
Balasubramaniam L. (asker) Jun 8, 2014:
Finger between the eyes vs finger on the temple There is also this gesture of keeping the finger on one's temple to indicate shooting. Probably the finger between the eyes is a variation of this more familiar gesture of shooting oneself; unless, the finger between the eyes gesture has some other independent meaning?
Thayenga Jun 8, 2014:
Yes It means to shoot someone/oneself. Usually this gesture is accompanied by a sound that resembles the report of a weapon.

Shooting someone/oneself right between the eyes results in instant death.
It furthermore means financial and/or social suicide or death.
Balasubramaniam L. (asker) Jun 8, 2014:
Does the gesture of... pointing a finger between someone's (or one's own) eyes, has any meaning? If so, that could be what the person is trying to say here.
Balasubramaniam L. (asker) Jun 8, 2014:
It is part of a narration of a person's... ... personal experience with violence. The context is like this:
His daughter is missing after a bomb explosion. He searches for her and finally reaches the morgue. And then in his narration he uses the above phrase, to describe his feeling about what he saw there. (He finds her daughter's body there.). What exactly he feels, cannot become clear unless we interpret this phrase correctly. It could mean many things - Shock, anger, consternation, etc. etc. I am interested to know if this is some idiom in Arabic, Israeli, or English, in which case we can pin the meaning correctly. The person is clearly not an English-native from his accent. So he could also have literally translated an Arabic or Israeli phrase into English.
Thayenga Jun 8, 2014:
Context In which context does this phrase appear?

Responses

5 hrs
Selected

Sensation of tingling and vulnerability

Though this may have something to do with shooting/being shot, there is a widely reported feeling of tingling and vulnerability if somebody else puts their finger between one's eyes. One may point one's finger between someone's eyes to make them feel vulnerable and this is sometimes demonstrated using e.g. a pencil. It does not work if one does it to oneself:

'Suddenly, standing on my front lawn were true-blue U.S. marshals, local sheriff's ... that can protect the ones I love — and myself — from the toxic caress that ruins souls. .... She pointed an accusing finger between my eyes and rasped, “Idiot!"'
pentracker.com/inspiring-true-stories/the-choice/

It may be connected with an instinct to protect the brain from threat, but may simply be because, as one experiences the world primarily through sight, this is the most direct approach or threat to the self. If asked where they feel that the self is located, most people would give the response of behind or between the eyes.

This is probably connected with the Hindu and Buddhist idea of the "third eye".

People often press a finger between their eyes when trying to concentrate.




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Note added at 5 hrs (2014-06-08 10:42:56 GMT)
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On the question of shooting, there can be no sensation of being shot between the eyes as one would be dead and have no sensations. However, having a gun pointed between one's eyes would induce a greater feeling of vulnerability than having it pointed at one's chest, even if the outcome of that gun being fired would essentially be identical.
Note from asker:
Thank you. I read your answer carefully. I think you are right that he felt a range of emotions which can perhaps be expressed by your term "a sensation of tingling and vulnerability".
Peer comment(s):
neutral Yvonne Gallagher : I don't see there is any sense of "vulnerability" here and "sensation of tingling" is definitely not strong enough to describe what he may have felt. No one is pointing a finger at him; he is "jabbing the air"
5 hrs
I agree that "tingling" is too weak. However, I do think it is about vulnerability: the powerlessness to help his daughter or to appeal to justice over her death and the physical sensation resulting from the emotions involved.
Something went wrong...
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
+2
38 mins

as if shot right between the eyes

This phrase then means that he felt as if someone had shot him right between the eyes.
"Shooting" is often symbolized by an extended index finger. So he felt as if someone had shot him.

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Note added at 38 mins (2014-06-08 05:56:35 GMT)
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Seeing his dead daughter nearly killed him emotionally.

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Note added at 1 hr (2014-06-08 06:44:56 GMT)
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Another way of phrasing it - and with the same result - is that it tore out his heart, which also equals death. The realization that his daughter was dead killed him emotionally (not physically).

In other words, whoever killed his daughter, also killed the father. Not physically, but emotionally or perhaps mentally, too.
Note from asker:
Thank you. That could be one possible interpretation. Finger is pointed also to show a person something. If we take this meaning, it could mean, he suddenly realized something profound. The confusion is due to this finger pointing being juxtaposed with "right between the eyes". The two don't go very well together. Unless it is meant to mean that whatever he realized suddenly went right into his head or consciousness. I am a bit hesitant about applying a violent meaning to this phrase because the father is in a distraught state and the thought uppermost in his mind is to find his daughter, and violence may not be his immediate concern. But again, violence does suggest itself, given the bombing context. It is quite confusing really.
Peer comment(s):
agree BrigitteHilgner : Mabe not yet shot - but about to be shot: frightened, shocked, numbed.
24 mins
Yes, not yet shot. To me it implies the desire to die. Thank you, Brigitte. :)
agree Sheila Wilson : re Asker's note above. the father isn't feeliing violent but violated, attacked, mortally wounded
2 hrs
Thank you for expressing it a little more clearly, Sheila. :)
neutral Yvonne Gallagher : I think this is a possibility in terms of being shocked/stunned but I don't agree with you about a desire to be dead and/or "killed emotionally" nor with Sheila's comment "violated/mortally wounded"
10 hrs
Thank you, Gallagy, for your comment. Please see the discussion. :)
Something went wrong...
7 hrs

was totally shocked

Thanks for the extra context.

He was thunderstruck, shocked to a sense of NUMBNESS and seeing his daughter on the slab was like a "a bolt from the blue" or as if hit by lightning. he was not expecting this at all so it had enormous impact on him. An image he will carry with him to his grave.

There is absolutely nothing to suggest he DESIRES death here (though of course that could come later)

Right between the eyes relates in some religions and mystic meaning to the third eye but the general meaning is a full impact and realisation of something


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Note added at 7 hrs (2014-06-08 13:14:48 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

sometimes people will put a finger up between the eyes to focus attention and improve concentration.

Yes, it is the end of his quest as he has found her but I don't think he was really expecting to find her in the morgue so the shock element is more important in my view.

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Note added at 7 hrs (2014-06-08 13:16:45 GMT)
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I did consider Pijush' "hamsa" but that would be more related to the concept of the EVIL EYE and I don't think it fits here

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Note added at 8 hrs (2014-06-08 13:19:28 GMT)
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yes, becoming revengeful would be a natural outcome of such a horrible thing

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Note added at 8 hrs (2014-06-08 13:21:06 GMT)
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But right there it's the impact or enormity of seeing his daughter like that that is striking him

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Note added at 8 hrs (2014-06-08 13:41:11 GMT)
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By the way, the more common expression in English would be "HIT" right between the eyes. Maybe from hitting or shooting cattle with a bolt gun to stun them

http://idioms.thefreedictionary.com/hit between the eyes
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/hit between the eyes


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Note added at 11 hrs (2014-06-08 16:21:46 GMT)
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on your latest disc entry
of course, "right between the eyes" also has the meaning of "bang on target" or "bullseye" but that would make no sense here that I can see... I think it unlikely he is plotting his revenge right away at that instant but I suppose it's possible it might be "I'm going to kill whoever did that"

However, I think it far more likely he is shocked or stunned by the impact of seeing his daughter dead.

could be right. It's just that

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Note added at 11 hrs (2014-06-08 16:22:32 GMT)
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ignore last line please...meant to delete.
Note from asker:
Thanks, Gallagy. From my advantage of knowing the follow-up text, I can confirm that the person himself didn't feel threatened or fearful of death. In fact he is revengeful.
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