 Track this topic | Kullanıcı | Konuyu gönderen: Marinus Vesseur SDL Studio Trados 2009: how do TMs get updated? |
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Marinus Vesseur 
Kanada
Local time: 00:36
 Üye
İngilizce > Hollandaca
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This is an attempt to understand the inner workings of Trados:
How do TMs get updated?
When you check the little box "Update", Studio quietly and continually updates the TM while you work. See here:
Yet, the date and size of the TM do not seem to change. This was on 4 November:
This put me on the wrong foot when I wanted to update my AutoSuggest dictionary by means of the main TM. The date of the TM is from 4 days ago. "This can't be the active TM" I thought, but according to the settings it is.
So how does THAT work?
Will I be getting all the latest segments if I use a four-day-old TM?
Anyone?
| | | | Jerzy Czopik
Almanya
Local time: 09:36
  2003 tarihinden beri üye
Lehçe > Almanca
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| | Simply check if your TM has got updated | Nov 5 |
Go some few segments back and check, wether the hits from TM are coming.
But if you created a project, you might have also created project TMs and then just those get updated.
Did you use a project TM?
But in principle with your settings how I see them here this TM should be updated.
| | | | Richard Hall
İtalya
Local time: 09:36
2002 tarihinden beri üye
İtalyanca > İngilizce
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| | I don't think so... | Nov 5 |
... if Marinus means updates during the translation, similar to the project TM. I found that you had to expressly run a TM update for it to update. If you, as I did, had two TM's the first of which had the update box checked and the second not, the second would not be updated by the update run.
I checked it several times and am fairly certain.
| | | | Jerzy Czopik
Almanya
Local time: 09:36
2003 tarihinden beri üye
Lehçe > Almanca
+ ...
| | Working with multiple TMs | Nov 5 |
makes very much sense in Studio.
When you use more than one TM however, it is very clever (in my opinion) only to update the main TM during the translation, leaving all other TMs not updated. If you update more than one TM during the translation, the 100% match becomes 99% then, because you have multiple 100% matches... So it is better just to update one TM (even then you come in situations, when a match becomes 99% because it is multiple) and then update all TMs via the Batch task "Upgrade main TMs" eventually.
| | | | Marinus Vesseur
Kanada
Local time: 00:36
Üye
İngilizce > Hollandaca
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TOPIC STARTER | | What the... is a project and what is not? | Nov 5 |
Jerzy Czopik wrote:
Go some few segments back and check, wether the hits from TM are coming. |
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Yes, that is the case. So how can the TM file show an older date? And not change its size?
| But if you created a project, you might have also created project TMs and then just those get updated... |
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Now this makes me mad. What does that even mean? What is this crazy talk about project or non-project translation? Every time I open a document there is a project created. If, by mistake, I look on the project page I see 6 project "in progress". Man, this is annoying.
Not you, Jerzy. I mean the whole setup.
[Edited at 2009-11-05 08:04 GMT]
| | | | Jerzy Czopik
Almanya
Local time: 09:36
2003 tarihinden beri üye
Lehçe > Almanca
+ ...
| | Difference between project of one document and a "real" project | Nov 5 |
If you simply open a document for translation, there is no project TM.
Indeed, even in this case a project is created, but this just contains the settings for that one particular file. No project preparation tasks are done.
When you have more than one file, you create a "real" project. Then you use the project wizzard and have the possibility to select, which batch tasks have to be performed on that project.
Simply make an experiment and create a project or look through the sample project available.
In the other thread it was badly critisized, that Studio has so many options. But having all those options gives you the possibility to use Studio for simple files and complicated projects, where you have files in different subfolders. Previously only Synergy was capable of looking through subfolders, but its projects were very static. A Studio project remains dynamic, as you can adapt project settings or add and remove files at any time.
| | | | Marinus Vesseur
Kanada
Local time: 00:36
Üye
İngilizce > Hollandaca
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER | | The many options are not the issue... | Nov 5 |
.. at least not to me. It is the apparently random placement of them that makes it so... "unübersichtlich". There is no good English equivalent, other than "confusing", but you speak German, so you know what I mean.
Maybe that is not even the exact issue, either.
What I am missing is a clear division between translator menus and agency menus, one-file-project-menus and multi-file-project-menus and such clearly defined purpose- and user-friendly areas. At least half of the options in Studio I'll probably never use, but they are cluttered all over the place next to essential, every-day functions.
You mentioned the BMW i-Drive with its many menu options and layers. Now imagine a user menu where you can also find all the options for the mechanic. They do not belong in the main user menus. Similarly with Studio: the agency options are sprinkled all over the user menus, whereas they should be somewhat hidden, behind an "Advanced" button or in an "Agency" section. Know what I mean?
But we digress. I want to understand the database behind this program suite, so I'll know how to prevent more nasty surprises. That's why I asked the question.
Jerzy Czopik wrote:
..
In the other thread it was badly critisized, that Studio has so many options.... |
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[Edited at 2009-11-05 08:38 GMT]
  | | | | Stanislav Pokorny
Çek Cumhuriyeti
Local time: 09:36
İngilizce > Çekçe
+ ...
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Well, this may be an idea. The new TransitNXT uses user profiles. I.e. once you start TransitNXT, you are prompted to select your profile: project manager, translator, reviewer, terminologist or superuser (perhaps some more). Once you select the appropriate profile, only functions relevant for that profile are available. Others are hidden, so you have to switch the profile if you want to display them. If you want to have all the options, you can use the Superuser profile.
But then this basically nice concept goes in vain with the awful ribbon bar...
| | | | Jerzy Czopik
Almanya
Local time: 09:36
2003 tarihinden beri üye
Lehçe > Almanca
+ ...
| | Updating TMs as you work | Nov 5 |
I do not differ between "agency" and "freelance" settings, but just between simple project (ie just one file) and a "real" project with multiple files.
Let us start from the beginning.
The simple case first:
You open the file. Wherever you are in your program, pressing the corresponding shortcut (per default CTRL+SHIFT+O) brings you the Open file dialogue. Now show the program where the file is. The file is being read and you get to the screen with language and TM choice. Set the proper language pair and add TM(s). Make the desired one updateable by checking the corresponding box and leave all other as just read-only TMs.
Translate your file. The chosen TM will be updated on the fly (provided you either work with default settings or did not change the settings in Tools - Options - Editor - Automatisation, which determine what happens, when an exact match is found and what happens, when you confirm the segment).
After you're done with your translation, you can go to Project - Batch tasks and chose Update master TMs. This way your translations will be also written to the other TMs.
That is mainly all.
The more complicated case now:
You have multiple files for translation.
Chose "Create new project" (what follows, is step by step, separated by pressing next each time, which I omit in the description for simplicity).
Use the standard template for that.
Give the project a name, select the location for project files.
Chose project language pair(s).
Add files now (from folder with subfolders or simply chosen files).
Make TM settings here, also select the necessary Autosuggest dictionaries, if desired (please note, that in case of a freelancer you can prepare all language specific settings as default via Tools - Options - Language pairs, and thus will not need to do any changes while creating project)
Do the same settings for termbases (as above, if you are a freelance, make those settings upfront as default)
Then you come to "Batch tasks"
These is the most complicated part, as you have to understand what they do.
Usually there are some prepared tasks and AFAIR the freelance version does not allow you to customize them. I do not have the freelance version, so I can't tell exactly which tasks are there. So maybe you could tell me the names of those tasks and then we try to identify what they do.
| | | | SDL Support
Birleşik Krallık
Local time: 08:36
İngilizce
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Hi Marinus,
I would like to mention that when creating a project you have the "Prepare without project TM" task sequence. This will be under the Project Preparation section of the project wizard and will convert, analyse and pre-translate files without creating a project TM. Therefore only your main TM/s will be updated when you translate.
This option was developed for freelancers who wish to begin translating a document and do not work within a large group so a project TM is not necessary.
I hope this helps.
Many Thanks,
Gareth Powell
SDL Support Team
| | | | henry.zhang
Birleşik Krallık
Local time: 08:36
2008 tarihinden beri üye
İngilizce > Çince
+ ...
| | main translation memory and project translation memory | Nov 6 |
Hi Marinus, I assume when you used project wizzard to create a new project, you also created a translation memory(supposing you name that translation memory TM1) for that project(Supposing you called it Project 1). And you found that the translation memory(TM1) you created cannot be updated automatically, am I right?
That's because the translation memory (TM1) was not actually linked to your project (Project 1). After you created the translation memory(TM1), Trados Studio 2009 would create another translation memory in a folder named 'tm', this folder was located in your project folder. This translation memory is actually the TM linked to your project, the name of it is sort of like Project1_TM1. After you finish translating a translation unit, your translation will automaticaaly go into this TM(Project1_TM1), instead of the TM(TM1) you set up in the first place.
You can now check your project folder to see if you could find a folder named tm, inside that folder you could find the tm created automatically by Trados Studio 2009. Double click that tm file and you can see all your translation is in it.
Hope this will help you.
[Edited at 2009-11-06 17:53 GMT]
| | | | Sasha Barral
Fransa
Local time: 09:36
Apr 2009 tarihinden beri üye
Fransızca > İngilizce
| | Problem with TM in Trados 2009 | Nov 19 |
I had a similar problem. I had no results in the translation memory panel even after having finished translating the entire text. The TM window still said "no translation units found" or something like that. It was just because I hadn't followed the correct procedure to update the TM yet, your TM1, (despite having checked the update TM box in the TM settings, which didn't seem to do be having an effect). To fix the problem it was very easy, you just have to...
>Go to Project (in the editor view)
>Select Batch tasks
>select update main translation memories
That did the trick for me. I don't remember having to do anything like this in Trados 2007, I think with the old version the TM updated when I "saved as target". It seems things have changed!
[Modifié le 2009-11-19 15:57 GMT]
| | | | Stanislav Pokorny
Çek Cumhuriyeti
Local time: 09:36
İngilizce > Çekçe
+ ...
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The concept of project and main TMs has been around since Synergy.
Saving your file as target does not update any TM; cleaning up the file does. Just for info and to avoid any confusion. 
| | | | Sasha Barral
Fransa
Local time: 09:36
Apr 2009 tarihinden beri üye
Fransızca > İngilizce
| | Here's a word on the subject I found in another post | Nov 20 |
Thank you for the info. Here's some information from SDL.
Taken from another Proz forum on 2009 bugs:
016]A major issue: Sometimes, the TM or TMs (regardless of the number of TMs) are not updated even when the Update TM option is enabled in Options and Language Pair. I only noticed this bug when an almost identical match wasn't suggested by Studio, when I went back to the previous segment, none of them had been added to the TM. It's kind of an easy-to-miss bug. That has happened to me in two different projects I did this week. Until last week, I had been using Studio for a couple of months and never noticed anything similar. In both cases, the problem was fixed by itself when I restarted Studio.
[SDL] We have been unable to reproduce this one without mixing up Project TMs with Main TMs. When preparing projects, you have a choice whether you wish to work with project TMs (and update your main TMs only at the end of the project cycle using the Finalise task), or if you wish to work without project TMs and use the main TM throughout, similar to how you use Workbench in SDL Trados 2007. You make this choice by using the appropriate Task Sequence when creating the project, one is called "Prepare" (this uses project TMs), the other one is called "Prepare without project TM" (this uses the main TM throughout). When you use the main TM throughout, any segment you confirm will go into the main TM right away. If you don't the translations will be in the project TM only until you run the Finalise task, at which point the translations will be added to your main TM.
[Modifié le 2009-11-20 08:03 GMT]
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