Pages in topic:   < [1 2 3 4] >
Is this dishonest? (Company offers to pay commission to translators who refer work to them)
Thread poster: Tom in London
Tom in London
Tom in London
United Kingdom
Local time: 07:53
Member (2008)
Italian to English
TOPIC STARTER
Perfection Feb 22, 2017

Annamaria Amik wrote:

I am sure it is not accidental that they have a perfect 5-star rating from 302 translators on the Blue Board.


A perfect 5-star rating from 302 translators on the Blue Board is something that would immediately arouse my suspicion.

[Edited at 2017-02-22 17:13 GMT]


 
TonyTK
TonyTK
German to English
+ ...
Probably best to ... Feb 22, 2017

Tom in London wrote:

A perfect 5-star rating from 302 translators on the Blue Board is something that would immediately arouse my suspicion.

[Edited at 2017-02-22 17:13 GMT]


... stop digging, Tom


 
Lingua 5B
Lingua 5B  Identity Verified
Bosnia and Herzegovina
Local time: 08:53
Member (2009)
English to Croatian
+ ...
A lot of 5s don't tell me anything about the quality... Feb 22, 2017

.. they don't tell me anything about the quality their translators are providing, sorry. I would first need to check this quality first-hand in order to recommend someone to my direct client (and direct clients are not easy to find!)

Also, I have never received a misdirected inquiry during my entire freelance career, so what are the chances this will happen really?



[Edited at 2017-02-22 17:39 GMT]


 
Annamaria Amik
Annamaria Amik  Identity Verified
Local time: 09:53
Romanian to English
+ ...
Referral Feb 22, 2017

Lingua 5B wrote:

.. they don't tell me anything about the quality their translators are providing, sorry. I would first need to check this quality first-hand in order to recommend someone to my direct client (and direct clients are not easy to find!)

Also, I have never received a misdirected inquiry during my entire freelance career, so what are the chances this will happen really?



[Edited at 2017-02-22 17:39 GMT]


No one is asking you to recommend an unknown agency. No one in their right mind would recommend an unknown service provider. This e-mail was sent to the translators they work with and for some strange reason, Tom's on that list. If he is concerned about this (and I can understand why he is), of course he should ask them how they got his e-mail address.
People who know them are generally willing to recommend them, it seems.

Occasionally I do receive requests for quotes in pairs I don't work with - some clients, usually located very far from me, sometimes confuse the languages they are absolutely unfamiliar with. And just the other day there was a thread started by a translator who said she kept receiving requests for quotes that were irrelevant to her. So it does happen.


 
Samuel Murray
Samuel Murray  Identity Verified
Netherlands
Local time: 08:53
Member (2006)
English to Afrikaans
+ ...
Also an old translator directory Feb 22, 2017

Annamaria Amik wrote:
This e-mail was sent to the translators they work with and for some strange reason, Tom's on that list.


This agency also hosted a translator directory for which anyone could sign up (actually pre-dates ProZ.com), so perhaps Tom was in their directory.


 
Bríd Ní Fhlathúin
Bríd Ní Fhlathúin  Identity Verified
Ireland
Local time: 07:53
English to Irish
+ ...
excellent agency Feb 22, 2017

I'm not hastening to comment on the topic of paid referrals, as they are new to me within the translation industry and I've yet to formulate a view on them. But, having also received this email today, I'd like to support Annamaria in her assertion that the agency in question is an excellent one, honest, pragmatic, principled and courteous.

 
Bryan Crumpler
Bryan Crumpler  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 03:53
Dutch to English
+ ...
It's called affiliate marketing Feb 23, 2017

Some related literature:
https://www.smartpassiveincome.com/affiliate-m
... See more
Some related literature:
https://www.smartpassiveincome.com/affiliate-marketing-strategies/
http://www.forbes.com/sites/steveolenski/2014/07/08/4-myths-about-affiliate-marketing-you-need-to-know/#7d818786733b
https://biznology.com/2015/10/much-pay-sales-lead/

That said, I think it's normal for companies to pay a commission or offer incentives for business leads. The blogging industry, for example, is built heavily around this (look up "inbound advertising"), where the company will send them some free product under the condition that they publish a review about it. And, in many cases, they will close a deal where they get paid for each tracked lead. Paid tweets, for example, are a thing.

Others may prefer to develop relationships with people who are willing to make referrals for free or based on reputation, but to toss it off as outright unscrupulous is neither good business sense nor a good way of maximizing your earning potential... especially if you know you can't help the client directly asking for your services.

Just for comparison: apartment communities / landlords here, for example, will often give you a month of free rent sometimes if you refer someone to the community that they end up closing a lease with.
Collapse


 
Michael Wetzel
Michael Wetzel  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 08:53
German to English
+1 Feb 23, 2017

It is unethical (an obvious conflict of interest) to recommend the services of an agency or colleague if you have no reason to think they are any good, are being paid for sending work their way and do not disclose this situation to the person receiving your advice. I think almost everyone would agree on that.

But if everyone behaves fairly, why not? I actually think it's a shame that there aren't translation-market salespeople out there drumming up higher rates and more work for goo
... See more
It is unethical (an obvious conflict of interest) to recommend the services of an agency or colleague if you have no reason to think they are any good, are being paid for sending work their way and do not disclose this situation to the person receiving your advice. I think almost everyone would agree on that.

But if everyone behaves fairly, why not? I actually think it's a shame that there aren't translation-market salespeople out there drumming up higher rates and more work for good translators who are mediocre entrepreneurs. That would be a better way to perform the role played by a lot of agencies and it would benefit translators and their clients.
Collapse


 
Jennifer Forbes
Jennifer Forbes  Identity Verified
Local time: 07:53
French to English
+ ...
In memoriam
Perhaps it's not so fishy after all Feb 23, 2017

Having read the comments here, I'm coming round to the view that perhaps this agency's offer is not so fishy as I originally thought.
I see, for example, that Nationwide (the UK building society/savings and loan company) is offering its existing current account holders £100 for introducing a new current account holder. The new account holder also gets £100 (subject to certain conditions). I suppose that's not unethical, is it?


 
Tom in London
Tom in London
United Kingdom
Local time: 07:53
Member (2008)
Italian to English
TOPIC STARTER
I don't like it at all Feb 23, 2017

Jenny Forbes wrote:

Having read the comments here, I'm coming round to the view that perhaps this agency's offer is not so fishy as I originally thought.
I see, for example, that Nationwide (the UK building society/savings and loan company) is offering its existing current account holders £100 for introducing a new current account holder. The new account holder also gets £100 (subject to certain conditions). I suppose that's not unethical, is it?


I don't like this marketing trick at all. It tries to exploit my personal friendships by offering me a discount or some other incentive, in exchange for inviting them to sign up for something. This recently happened to me when I switched energy providers and as an incentive, I was offered cash if I would also get a friend to sign up. Sorry, but my friends are not for sale. I find this idea very disgusting - although in today's world, being disgusting seems to be the new normal.


 
Jennifer Forbes
Jennifer Forbes  Identity Verified
Local time: 07:53
French to English
+ ...
In memoriam
I see your point, Tom ... Feb 23, 2017

... but by making this seemingly generous offer, Nationwide is openly demonstrating that it must find current accounts highly lucrative and is not concealing anything. It's presumably competing with the "high street" banks where non-Nationwide customers have current accounts in an endeavour to persuade them to switch to a "better" deal, just like the power suppliers. Yes, it's the modern way but it's not actually dishonest.

 
Christopher Schröder
Christopher Schröder
United Kingdom
Member (2011)
Swedish to English
+ ...
It's fine by me Feb 23, 2017

It doesn't seem any different to subcontracting a job to another translator and taking a cut.

 
Bryan Crumpler
Bryan Crumpler  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 03:53
Dutch to English
+ ...
Marketing "tricks" Feb 23, 2017

Tom in London wrote:

I don't like this marketing trick at all. It tries to exploit my personal friendships by offering me a discount or some other incentive, in exchange for inviting them to sign up for something. This recently happened to me when I switched energy providers and as an incentive, I was offered cash if I would also get a friend to sign up. Sorry, but my friends are not for sale. I find this idea very disgusting - although in today's world, being disgusting seems to be the new normal.


It's not a marketing "trick". It's a standard marketing practice.

How do you think Facebook came to be a multi-billion dollar enterprise without charging a single person a penny to sign up? From what I recall from the early days of FB, any time you played a game, for example, the only way to move on to the next level or get more credits to play was by signing up for a credit card or filling out a survey or entering an e-mail address that would "invite" someone else to play, thereby generating some secondary business lead. And guess who gets the payout, all while growing their audience to 1.86 BILLION? When Zuckerberg made that site, he hoped for about 400 members... and that insidious marketing "trick" led to a net worth of 54 billion. Now, making a friend request is the same thing - where Facebook "exploits" your personal friendships to expand their marketing base. Anything you like or comment on gets earmarked in your advertising preferences too so they can plop sponsored posts in your news feed and in the margins of the site.

You don't have to like the marketing method, but it's not dishonest: you're not vouching for the quality of their business. It's simply a way of marketing for them without being on their payroll or being their agent or even having to believe in their product.

If a client comes to you asking for your services, and you are unable (or don't want) to do it, what is the harm in saying, "Sorry, I am not available to do this project, but perhaps XYZ might be able to assist." You can even follow that with "I can't vouch for their services, though.", if that eases your anxiety.

All I know is "affiliate marketing" is as common as breathing air. It's not a "new" normal. After all, isn't this what agencies do? Dare I hyperbolize, but I would bet the farm that most agencies that don't have any in-house staff are simply intermediary marketeers & salespeople who are good at soliciting business on the promise that they can find people to do the work for the respective client. And essentially, by signing on with an agency, you are basically telling them: "Hey, I'll give you a cut if you send me some work." ... only, they're the ones taking the money up front, rather than you getting the money and paying the agency for every lead they generate for you!

Think about it...

If agencies got a cut per money-generating business lead they sent you, they'd be more apt to send work to any and everybody they could find. Agencies assume the controlling position, however, when they situate themselves in the middle and get to select (in secret) the people from whom they think they will generate the biggest cut and largest amount of repeat business (based on the quality of delivery). It would upend the entire freelancer-agency-client model to which we are accustomed if that were the case, because business operates on a gatekeeper/locked-door principle.

[Edited at 2017-02-23 11:32 GMT]


 
Tom in London
Tom in London
United Kingdom
Local time: 07:53
Member (2008)
Italian to English
TOPIC STARTER
I hate Facebook Feb 23, 2017

Bad example. I am not going to allow myself or people I know to be dragooned into someone else's money-making operation. I hate Facebook, and anyone with minimal ability knows how to block all ads and all personal information on FB. Not that I ever use it (much).

[Edited at 2017-02-23 13:34 GMT]


 
Bryan Crumpler
Bryan Crumpler  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 03:53
Dutch to English
+ ...
Facebook does not care whether or not you hate it. It's making billions. Feb 23, 2017

Tom in London wrote:

Bad example. I am not going to allow myself or people I know to be dragooned into someone else's money-making operation. I hate Facebook, and anyone with minimal ability knows how to block all ads and all personal information on FB. Not that I ever use it (much).

[Edited at 2017-02-23 13:34 GMT]


It's the perfect example of how affiliate marketing has allowed a business to grow into a billion dollar company, creating both economic growth for the country as well as jobs not only at Facebook, but also for everyone.

Google Adsense is another affiliate marketing example. Do you hate Google too? What about Amazon? eBay? YouTube? Any kind of free mobile apps? Apple (iTunes)? Tesla? eInsurance? Hotwire? Hotels.com? Any kind of airline aggregator (Travelocity, Priceline, Expedia, Kayak)? Skin care products or cosmetics? Ever played any online casino games? Pokerstars? World Series of Poker? Ever taken an Uber or called a taxi? Yes, taxi companies can refer other taxi companies in their affiliate group. What about HMOs? Ever been to a doctor who prescribed medication for you? Docs get a kickback for prescribing certain pharmaceuticals over others, which comes from lots of networking at medical conferences and conventions and such. Ever had a bank recommend some fraud prevention software for you to download for free? What about your ISP offering free antivirus software? What about engaging a law firm (for a car accident or labor dispute) and the firm referring you to another lawyer who might specialize in those types of cases? They get money for those leads too. It's all the same thing.

If you wish not to engage in this type of business-growing strategy, you don't have to, but... I'm so tickled that you believe this means being "dragooned" into someone else's money-making operation and that you wont allow it. Hehe. Any time you do work for any other company, either as a contractor or employee or simply a lead generator, you are being "dragooned" into someone else's money-making operation. That's called doing business. And affiliate marketing is not only good business sense, it's good business strategy.


 
Pages in topic:   < [1 2 3 4] >


To report site rules violations or get help, contact a site moderator:


You can also contact site staff by submitting a support request »

Is this dishonest? (Company offers to pay commission to translators who refer work to them)







Anycount & Translation Office 3000
Translation Office 3000

Translation Office 3000 is an advanced accounting tool for freelance translators and small agencies. TO3000 easily and seamlessly integrates with the business life of professional freelance translators.

More info »
Protemos translation business management system
Create your account in minutes, and start working! 3-month trial for agencies, and free for freelancers!

The system lets you keep client/vendor database, with contacts and rates, manage projects and assign jobs to vendors, issue invoices, track payments, store and manage project files, generate business reports on turnover profit per client/manager etc.

More info »