| Pages in topic: < [1 2] | Do Freelance Translators Lack Self-Esteem? Thread poster: Jeff Whittaker
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Some translators lack self-esteem, some dread having to negotiate, some have very little experience, are not business-savvy or don't believe it's possible to charge more, others are not motivated enough and perhaps need a little push or are simply happy with low rates.
In my opinion, the situation described by Claire, what that translator did was clearly unprofessional, short-sighted and ... (a few other words come to mind).
Having said that, I think that Jeff's post i... See more Some translators lack self-esteem, some dread having to negotiate, some have very little experience, are not business-savvy or don't believe it's possible to charge more, others are not motivated enough and perhaps need a little push or are simply happy with low rates.
In my opinion, the situation described by Claire, what that translator did was clearly unprofessional, short-sighted and ... (a few other words come to mind).
Having said that, I think that Jeff's post is right on the money!
Jeff Whittaker wrote:
Do you know what the difference is between a translator that charges .05 a word and a translator that charges .14 a word?
Answer: She woke up one morning and decided that she was going to charge .14 a word.
My answer: She knew the going rates for her language pair, decided to charge more, watched a couple of Konstantin Kisin's webinars -Thanks, Konstantin!- and learned to negotiate.
Of course, knowing that the translation agency charges more than $300 for a short rush job (rush fees, formatting fees, etc.) while pretending to have a "very tight budget"/"We can't pay more than $35" only helped reinforce her decision to do everything in her power to negotiate MUCH more than what the agency was "offering".
[Edited at 2015-09-09 23:47 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | Jeff Whittaker 
United States
Local time: 11:29
Member (2002)
Spanish to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
[Edited at 2015-09-09 02:31 GMT]
| | | | Angela Malik
United Kingdom
Local time: 16:29
German to English
+ ...
Francesca Collodo wrote:
For a long time now, I have felt that the industry suffers from an endemic "but I am an academic!" ego inflation.
OOOOOOOH my god, yes. Generally followed by some rant about peanuts and how all the other translators in the world are unprofessionals who are bringing down the profession. Please, shoot me now.
A seemingly similar statement which also frustrates me is "I'm a linguist, not a businessperson!" (usually meaning, "I shouldn't have to work so hard at selling/marketing my services and price negotiations -- that's not what I signed up for, it's not part of my job description.") Well, if you're a freelancer, I'm sorry but that's just not the case.
Anyway, Claire, I know you weren't trying to be rude but I, too, found your post to be a bit patronising -- I know you definitely weren't trying to be, though! My response to your blog post, respectfully, is that is that looking at rates and blaming it all on self-esteem is overly simplistic. Deciding on what to charge is a business decision, and some people are just not great at business. That may come down to self-esteem in some cases, but it doesn't have to be. I think it often is a question not of self-esteem but of self-confidence. For some, the business side of the freelance life does not come naturally. Some settle on low rates because while they may have high self-esteem and may greatly value the work they produce, they lack the self-confidence in their ability to sell it to that particular client or in their ability to handle price negotiations. The good news is that natural or not, things like that are skills that can be learned, so even if someone doesn't have a natural business acumen, they can still learn to be a fantastic and successful businessperson.
Another point to keep in mind is that for some, choosing to charge less is a calculated decision with a specific business strategy in mind (e.g. economies of scale). Whether you agree with that approach or not, it's not a wildly radical concept in the business world. If they're happy and it works for them, great. It is condescending and insulting to assume that these people just don't have the self-esteem to charge higher rates, otherwise they would.
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Not sure it's a lack of self-esteem so much as a sound survival instinct.
I mean, I know I'm worth it, but most agencies don't.
While my rates to direct customers have merrily risen with or above inflation in recent years, most agencies are now unwilling to pay what I charged them 15 years ago... They'd rather pay 50% of my price for 75% of my quality, which clearly makes sense commercially or they wouldn't do it.
In this situation, insisting on higher rate... See more Not sure it's a lack of self-esteem so much as a sound survival instinct.
I mean, I know I'm worth it, but most agencies don't.
While my rates to direct customers have merrily risen with or above inflation in recent years, most agencies are now unwilling to pay what I charged them 15 years ago... They'd rather pay 50% of my price for 75% of my quality, which clearly makes sense commercially or they wouldn't do it.
In this situation, insisting on higher rates is suicidal. ▲ Collapse
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Samuel Murray
Netherlands
Local time: 17:29
Member (2006)
English to Afrikaans
+ ...
She says "I personally have been able to change my level of confidence in my abilities by getting out there and meeting other translators, whether virtually or in the flesh."
Well, that only works if the translators you meet are less skilled than you are.
| | | | | More assumptions... | Sep 9, 2015 |
Claire Cox wrote:
I don't think 30 years' experience in the profession qualifies me as uninformed...if you don't agree, that's fine, but please don't try to put down my achievements in the process.
I called the post/idea uninformed...not you. I made no observation whatsoever on your "achievements" - how could I, I have no idea what those are.
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While my rates to direct customers have merrily risen with or above inflation in recent years, most agencies are now unwilling to pay what I charged them 15 years ago... They'd rather pay 50% of my price for 75% of my quality, which clearly makes sense commercially or they wouldn't do it.
I often think this is exactly it - isn't it a simple case of supply and demand, what the market requires? Which is our responsibility to find out, and respond to?
It's the end client ultimately who decides. You get what you pay for - if they are happy with the quality (or more likely lack of) that they are getting for a cheap translation, who are we to argue? Equally, we all know that many companies place far greater importance on the documentation they are exporting to the purchasers of their products/services in other countries, such translators' work would simply be unacceptable to them. So they are happy to pay more.
Isn't there a place for everyone?!
| | | | | Missundaztood | Sep 9, 2015 |
Francesca Collodo wrote:
Stuff
I should clarify - I was attempting to explain, not to justify.
I firmly believe that freelancers are their own worst enemy and need to grow some balls.
While I manfully continue to insist on a decent rate, many probably-just-as-good translators dare not. And that's the biggest threat I face - not all the crap translators out there but the decent ones who sell themselves short.
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| Terminology issue? | Sep 9, 2015 |
Claire Cox wrote:
I certainly have the impression that many colleagues are lacking in self-esteem - or business confidence, as James described it ..... Now whether that's lack of self-esteem, no business sense, or just plain ignorance, I really don't think it's a very professional way to behave.
I suspect an article couched in terms of "business confidence" might have elicited a different response. The actual "curse of the translator" (assuming, as you say, we take the view we're running a business, not just hobbyists) is imperfect market knowledge, and imperfect market knowledge leads to imperfect business decisions, and the knowledge (conscious or otherwise) that one's decisions are going to be imperfect economically can lead to tentativeness or a lack of business confidence.
The scale of this effect may vary of course, but that is actually what you're describing, I think.
Ignorance? Of a specific kind, yes, if you like.
Lack of business sense? Perhaps sometimes, other times not (even people with 20/20 vision can't see much if it's pitch black and people with good business sense can't take good decisions with too little data). Trying to win customers by offering lower prices, while you might not like it, is an established practice that can get results, particularly in the short term.
Attributable to a lack of self-esteem? I think what you've done there is the old confusing correlation with causality thing. And that's even giving you the benefit of the doubt that "many" translators are in fact lacking in self esteem, despite the fact that the situations you describe cannot, in all honesty, lead unequivocally to your conclusion. Indeed, given the tenacity with which some argue the most doubtful of cases, there is an argument that the opposite is equally (un)true.
| | | | Jeff Whittaker
United States
Local time: 11:29
Member (2002)
Spanish to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER | Another factor may be.. | Sep 9, 2015 |
... that some translators don't know (and don't care?) what their product is being resold for? How can you price your services accurately if you have no idea what your clients are paying?
| | | | Phil Hand
China
Local time: 23:29
Chinese to English
| Structural characteristics rather than personal characteristics | Sep 9, 2015 |
Angela Rimmer wrote:
...I'm a linguist, not a businessperson...it's not part of my job description.
I think there is some of that, and understandably so. In industries which aren't made up so overwhelmingly of freelancers, the people who do the actual work are supported by little (or large) teams of managers, marketers and accountants. Those professionals make it their job to ensure that the services of the engineer/coder/phone jockey are sold at the best possible market price. We don't have that. So, as freelancers, we do our best, but inevitably many linguists don't want to be salespeople; many aren't particularly good at judging the market. Rather than see this as a character flaw, remember that other service-providers have professionals who do this for them. (It's so bad for us that in our industry, our "agents" are one of the most powerful depressors on our prices. With friends like those...)
Having said that, I want to endorse what Jeff said 100%:
Jeff Whittaker wrote:
Do you know what the difference is between a translator that charges .05 a word and a translator that charges .14 a word?
Answer: She woke up one morning and decided that she was going to charge .14 a word.
| | | | Angela Malik
United Kingdom
Local time: 16:29
German to English
+ ...
Phil Hand wrote: Angela Rimmer wrote:
...I'm a linguist, not a businessperson...it's not part of my job description. I think there is some of that, and understandably so...as freelancers, we do our best, but inevitably many linguists don't want to be salespeople; many aren't particularly good at judging the market. Rather than see this as a character flaw...
I don't see it as a character flaw at all, but you're right that not all linguists want to be salespeople and I want to acknowledge that business does not come naturally to everybody (in any field). And I suppose if you are one of those people and you can make a happy living going without any major 'businessman' effort, then that is excellent! But most businesses require more than that to thrive, and the best part is that you can learn those skills.
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| Learning business skills | Sep 9, 2015 |
Angela Rimmer wrote:
Some settle on low rates because while they may have high self-esteem and may greatly value the work they produce, they lack the self-confidence in their ability to sell it to that particular client or in their ability to handle price negotiations. The good news is that natural or not, things like that are skills that can be learned, so even if someone doesn't have a natural business acumen, they can still learn to be a fantastic and successful businessperson.
I like the sound of that - now, if Angela had written this article, pointing out that the problem can be fixed this way, and preferably giving some pointers (good ways to learn this - books, online articles, courses?) it would have been a lot more useful for many of us I think.
Claire: the brief background linked from your site does make it seem to me as if you had quite an easy entry into freelancing, having started out salaried then transitioned to being a contractor to the same employer, rather than having to go out hunting down clients or agencies "from scratch". Probably not the whole story, but I do suspect that might not help the impression some seem to have of this being condescending towards them?
To be fair, the bit of freelance work I've done has been as a sideline to a salary, which definitely comes under the heading of "easy entry" - and while most of my income comes from teaching right now*, as an hourly contractor, that's all at a set rate: no negotiation, just a choice whether or not to teach each course that comes up. So, I'm certainly no role model for negotiating rates or entrepreneurship - though I'd like to change that.
(* Well, not right now, I'm stuck lying here full of pain medication waiting for some medical treatment, but you get the idea...)
Edited per suggestion by email just now
[Edited at 2015-09-09 19:55 GMT]
| | | | Claire Cox
United Kingdom
Local time: 16:29
French to English
+ ...
| We make our own luck | Sep 9, 2015 |
We make our own "luck" or "easy ride", James. Irrespective of where we start out (and how you get that position in the first place) it's all down to what you choose to do with it thereafter. If we believe in ourselves and take an "I can" attitude to life and business, everything becomes possible. And I fully endorse Jeff's comment, whether about the rates you choose to charge or the kind of jobs or working conditions you choose to accept or reject - it's in our own hands. Moaning that you're not... See more We make our own "luck" or "easy ride", James. Irrespective of where we start out (and how you get that position in the first place) it's all down to what you choose to do with it thereafter. If we believe in ourselves and take an "I can" attitude to life and business, everything becomes possible. And I fully endorse Jeff's comment, whether about the rates you choose to charge or the kind of jobs or working conditions you choose to accept or reject - it's in our own hands. Moaning that you're not a businessperson won't get you anywhere. Perhaps the most important thing of all is to surround yourself with a positive environment. All this negativity wears you down after a while....
I'm sorry to hear about your health problems, by the way - it certainly can't be easy setting up a business when you have health issues and all credit to you for persevering.
[Edited at 2015-09-10 06:32 GMT] ▲ Collapse
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